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It's still a valid concern. The government has mandated these businesses shut their doors it should also mandate that they get the assistance needed (which I'm

by bargl 6y ago

It's still a valid concern. The government has mandated these businesses shut their doors it should also mandate that they get the assistance needed (which I'm hoping will come next year). Small businesses can't afford a lot of the overhead of shuttering their doors and still paying mortgages etc. The employees there can't afford it either. I'm not saying it's a bad/good call by leaders. I'm just saying if you are mandated to shut your business, you should be able to "turn off" the economic issues associated with that. Mortgage gets extended, taxes get deferred, etc. This is definitely a weakness of pure capitalism in a regulation environment like today. We cant shut down a businesses income and expect their expenses to remain the same.

18pfsmt 6y ago
In a free market, the government doesn't have the right to take the decision away from the individual about how much risk they can tolerate. Some politicians infringing on the rights of others doesn't justify further intrusions on the natural rights of others.
- bargl 6y ago
  We don't have a free market, or we wouldn't have fire departments, police departments, schools, military, funding for crops, or any government budgets. The idea that we are a pure free market is as absurd as saying that china is pure communism. There is no pure government out there that meets the academic definition of the market they espouse. It's just not possible, never has been, never will be (I usually don't speak in absolutes but feel pretty 99.999% comfortable with this statement). There will always be gray outside the academic setting.
  - mikeyouse 6y ago
    It also fails at a more practical sense too - "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." People "choosing" to not wear a mask and to go to restaurants where the staff can't similarly "choose" to not be there is just subjecting everyone else to infection. For its other merits, libertarianism absolutely fails in a pandemic when the only possible response is collective action. Americans have such a limited definition of freedom it's almost comical.
    - bargl 6y ago
      > "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." Err not really, if you go full swing on someone and you "intended" to stop but they block your arm and punch you in the face, arguably it's your fault. If they kill you with that punch then they would be at fault. The law around freedom is really complex. Freedom in the US isn't limited, it's complicated. When American's use the word freedom most of them are being dumb. You do have freedoms that are protected, but that doesn't mean what you think is a freedom actually is a freedom. I'm also going to pick on your example of the restaurant. The staff at a restaurant does get to choose to be there or not, that's a free economy. If the government shuts down restaurants, like they have in some states, then the staff can no longer choose to take on that risk. Everyone gets to choose, but there is also an obligation/responsibility with freedom that people in the USA don't seem to "get". You are FREE to get a gun, you are then responsible for using it wisely. Lock it up, get trained with it, be safe, and learn when to pull it out. The jerks on CNN who had the rifle and were pointing it at the crowd are a great example of irresponsibility with freedom. They should have never, EVER pointed a gun at someone who did not pose an imminent threat to their person. Back to the punching example, everyone who sees a fake punch can judge HOW fake it was. Did they stop at the nose, did they just jerk their arm, did they go Suuuppppeeerrrrr slow. Those judgements matter in court to show that the person who fought back was being reasonable. The burden of reasonable action is even higher with a knife/gun. Take free speech for example, you can actually sign away your right to free speech in a contract. There is a commedian who talks about things that are illegal to say. Free speech applies to the press, not to individuals being ass hats. Anyway, all of that is me saying, freedom in the USA is a slogan, which is dumb. Meme's do not present great arguments, but the freedoms we do have are as well defined under the law as most place. People just don't know them.

by bargl 6y ago

18pfsmt 6y ago

In a free market, the government doesn't have the right to take the decision away from the individual about how much risk they can tolerate. Some politicians infringing on the rights of others doesn't justify further intrusions on the natural rights of others.

bargl 6y ago
We don't have a free market, or we wouldn't have fire departments, police departments, schools, military, funding for crops, or any government budgets. The idea that we are a pure free market is as absurd as saying that china is pure communism. There is no pure government out there that meets the academic definition of the market they espouse. It's just not possible, never has been, never will be (I usually don't speak in absolutes but feel pretty 99.999% comfortable with this statement). There will always be gray outside the academic setting.
- mikeyouse 6y ago
  It also fails at a more practical sense too - "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." People "choosing" to not wear a mask and to go to restaurants where the staff can't similarly "choose" to not be there is just subjecting everyone else to infection. For its other merits, libertarianism absolutely fails in a pandemic when the only possible response is collective action. Americans have such a limited definition of freedom it's almost comical.
  - bargl 6y ago
    > "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." Err not really, if you go full swing on someone and you "intended" to stop but they block your arm and punch you in the face, arguably it's your fault. If they kill you with that punch then they would be at fault. The law around freedom is really complex. Freedom in the US isn't limited, it's complicated. When American's use the word freedom most of them are being dumb. You do have freedoms that are protected, but that doesn't mean what you think is a freedom actually is a freedom. I'm also going to pick on your example of the restaurant. The staff at a restaurant does get to choose to be there or not, that's a free economy. If the government shuts down restaurants, like they have in some states, then the staff can no longer choose to take on that risk. Everyone gets to choose, but there is also an obligation/responsibility with freedom that people in the USA don't seem to "get". You are FREE to get a gun, you are then responsible for using it wisely. Lock it up, get trained with it, be safe, and learn when to pull it out. The jerks on CNN who had the rifle and were pointing it at the crowd are a great example of irresponsibility with freedom. They should have never, EVER pointed a gun at someone who did not pose an imminent threat to their person. Back to the punching example, everyone who sees a fake punch can judge HOW fake it was. Did they stop at the nose, did they just jerk their arm, did they go Suuuppppeeerrrrr slow. Those judgements matter in court to show that the person who fought back was being reasonable. The burden of reasonable action is even higher with a knife/gun. Take free speech for example, you can actually sign away your right to free speech in a contract. There is a commedian who talks about things that are illegal to say. Free speech applies to the press, not to individuals being ass hats. Anyway, all of that is me saying, freedom in the USA is a slogan, which is dumb. Meme's do not present great arguments, but the freedoms we do have are as well defined under the law as most place. People just don't know them.