19 ms·

Psilocybin and migraine: First of its kind trial reports promising results

236 points by futureguy 6y ago

sibeliuss 6y ago
A friend of mine has been using small doses to treat his migraines for years. Such a nice surprise to see this article headline!
- spottybanana 6y ago
  I use large doses just for fun. It is great. Haven't had migraines either, I think I will keep using just to prevent the migraines.
- echlebek 6y ago
  A very nice surprise. It's been known anecdotally for many years! (https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_medical1.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_medical1.shtml) Science sure moves slowly when there's artificial barriers in place, like the object of your research being a Schedule I substance.
proverbialbunny 6y ago
I had chronic migraines so bad 4 days out of every week I could not drink water or eat food. I'd puke from the pain. I could barely think straight and in the rarest of situations my mind would pass out from the pain. Migraine medicine and other kinds of medicine I was given did not work at the time, so thinking they might be cluster headaches I turned to 4-aco-dmt, which is psilocin without the psilocybin, so no stomach nausea, but a bit weaker. It didn't stop a migraine once it had started, but it did work as a preventative. I did a little bit larger than a microdose once a week and had no pain, no migraines, no problems, for quite a long time. (A regular full sized dose I could take once every 12 days without migraines.) I turned to 4-aco over mushrooms, because it was legal at the time, and no nausea. I believe it's still legal today, but I haven't kept up. Today, mushrooms are legal/deregulated in parts of the US, including where I live, so it's less of a concern. Today I have a prescription medicine that works. I'm cognizant of taking a single drug for too long. When I look up what I'm currently taking (sumatriptan) people online complain it stops working at 7 years of use. This is great, because now I feel comfortable taking it for 5 years before needing to switch. However, the second I start needing more to function, I'm switching it out. I do not want a life long resistance. That needs to be avoided at all cost. When I was taking the 4-aco I was a bit more cautious, because I can't find online how long it works for migraines. I would rather keep it in my back pocket if I ever need it again, so I went off it the second I found a prescription drug that worked, despite that the 4-aco worked better.
- electriclove 6y ago
  I tried a sample of sumatriptan once and my head/mind felt so clear. I've been able to manage without prescription meds but have always wondered if normal people felt like that all the time.
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    Not for me. It's the opposite. The first two hours after I take it are a come up. My symptoms are different each time I take it: Sometimes I'm half cognizant at that time, sometimes normal. Sometimes I get very sleepy and want to take a nap. Sometimes it makes me feel like I have low blood sugar during the come up and I start mildly shaking needing to eat something. Sometimes an arm or my arms will go to sleep during the come up, which happens to me on lsd (but not mushrooms) as well. But once the come up is over, usually within an hour and a half, I feel completely normal like I took nothing. I'm probably abnormal. I imagine if you take it while you do not have a migraine you'll get a mild heightened experience that may or may not be noticeable. It is, after all, a triptan. Oddly, 4-aco always made my mind feel clear the way you're describing. A bit more awareness, a bit more clarity. On 4-aco I wouldn't notice much or any come up. It was just the effects from the drug getting stronger over the first hour.
  - orthecreedence 6y ago
    Interesting. Sumatriptan makes me really loopy and slurs my speech. It can also make my jaw ache really bad, which is usually a sign it's working (it has about a 50% success rate for me). I often think that it works by moving the pain from my brain into my jaw. I never really feel great after taking it, but I'll happily deal with the effects over a migraine any day.
    - proverbialbunny 6y ago
      Have you been checked for TMJ / teeth grinding? It's a common cause of migraines.
      - 6y ago
Alex3917 6y ago
Anyone doing research on the effects of nicotinic acetylcholine inhibitors mixed with psilocybin? That seems like an obvious avenue for exploration, given we now know that they naturally occur together[1], but I haven't seen any papers on that yet. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260043066_Gymnopilins_a_product_of_a_hallucinogenic_mushroom_inhibit_the_nicotinic_acetylcholine_receptor https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260043066_Gymnopili...
philg_jr 6y ago
A close friend's father uses Psilocybin to treat cluster headaches. He dealt with these debilitating headaches for a long time, basically unable to function as a normal human. This is in the US, and he is a former small business owner (retired), with money, and was able to see numerous specialists, attempted many treatments, all of which were unsuccessful. I'm not sure how he figured out that Psilocybin is an option. Psilocybin is the only thing that relieves his cluster headaches for months at a time. I believe he doses 3ish grams of dried mushrooms, once a day for 2 days. I hope this gets more attention now that some states are decriminalizing Psilocybin. I suspect that other substituted tryptamines would be helpful as well, without needing to digest lots of mushroom fiber (which can be hard on the gut unless you fast for a period of time before consuming them). 4-HO-MET and 4-AcO-DMT comes to mind.
jb1991 6y ago
How do you have a placebo dose of psilocybin?! The effects are very noticable so lack of them would quickly reveal it was a placebo, I'd think. Unless it was not a blind test, in which case this would not matter.
- gardnr 6y ago
  The articles that I read on this 5 years ago stated that a sub-recreational dose was sufficient to reduce or eliminate cluster headaches for 6 months. The patient doesn't need to take an amount that would get them "high" and the drug is still effective at keeping migraines at bay.
  - cpncrunch 6y ago
    Perhaps, but this study wasn't testing a sub-clinical dose. There was a significant psychedelic effect (19.5% vs 3.08% for the placebo).
- meetups323 6y ago
  Why must we be so quick to discredit placebos? If a certain set of stimuli (someone in a medically authoritative position saying "this thing will help you", followed by you taking it), can be shown to work well at reducing symptoms in clinical studies, why not embrace it?
  - jb1991 6y ago
    Nothing wrong with that, but it may be testing something different. Worth testing, but it's a different concern.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    how would this work at scale? people tend to take a dim view of doctors that lie to them. imagine finding out you've been paying $50/month for a sugar pill prescription.
    - meetups323 6y ago
kcmastrpc 6y ago
There is an entire class of migraine medications that is based on triptan-class of drugs. They target similar receptors as psilocybin without the psychoactive effects. I've been using triptans for almost a decade to treat migraines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triptan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triptan
- loeg 6y ago
  Yeah, my wife has used some triptan-class drug (sumatriptan) for migraines for years.
bfgoodrich 6y ago
I do recreationally partake of psilocybin (for "spiritual" and simply entertainment reasons), and this was something that I personally have noticed: I no longer have migraines. Previously I suffered extreme migraines that would easily knock me out for a day, I couldn't take any medicine or I would vomit it back up, etc. I haven't since my first "shroom" experience. The weird thing is that I get the pre-migraine experience at the same rate, it just isn't followed by a migraine. Previously I'd get the vision distortions that would get worse to the point that I could barely see, and then an extreme migraine would start. I still get those vision distortions (every week or two) just as frequently, but they're followed by just returning to normal. This is obviously single case anecdotal, could be purely coincidental, and I don't encourage anyone to base any action on it, but it was something I literally had a discussion about this weekend.
- blacksmith_tb 6y ago
  Those distortions are generally called "auras"[1] (though my experience of them is more like a combination of TV static and tunnel vision). I find them to be potentially more unpleasant than the pain that follows, at least if I am not indoors and sitting down (trying to bike home during that is life-threatening; ditto for driving). 1: https://migraine.com/migraine-symptoms/aura/ https://migraine.com/migraine-symptoms/aura/
- BatteryMountain 6y ago
  Do you consume caffeine btw? Would you say that it affected your migraines possitively/negatively if so?
  - plutonorm 6y ago
    I stopped taking caffeine because of a problem with anxiety. My migraines have remained. I do find caffeine helps with the pain of a migraine though. I think sudden reduction in caffeine intake can trigger migraines...
  - bfgoodrich 6y ago
    I do consume around three large coffees an average day. I would get a headache from caffeine withdrawal (not a migraine though) so it's been a pretty long time since I've really gone without caffeine. Couldn't say whether caffeine is negative or positive as it's pretty much always been a component.
SebastianKumor 6y ago
Keto diet helped me a lot with my migraines. As soon as i started to eat more carbs again the frequency of my migraines increased. Also wine is a big trigger for me. Would be nice to try this.
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  For people in my family, white flour specifically, and also processed food in general, as well as things in the air such as VOCs (sources: plastics, furniture glue, "cleaning" products) are triggers. Once they're eliminated or reduced, the migraines stop. Have you tried anything like this?
orthecreedence 6y ago
Has anybody here ever gotten a migraine that started in one of your teeth? That's the most interesting start to one I've gotten, but I looked it up and couldn't find anything about it anywhere. Maybe it was a fluke.
sixQuarks 6y ago
If you suffer migraines and you drink coffee, STOP drinking coffee immediately. Even if you've been drinking coffee forever with no migraines until recently, trust me, stop the coffee.
- SebastianKumor 6y ago
  My experience is that caffeine helps me against migraine. Do you take caffeine from some other source ?
  - aSockPuppeteer 6y ago
    I switched to ginseng primarily. Green tea some but not much and not daily. I cut out coffee for 3 weeks for another reason and the migraines went away. They come back with stress, not enough breaks from mobile/monitors, and other unknowns. Exercise daily getting your heart rate up has helped also. There’s a migraine book out there about the exclusion diet where you slowly cut things out and make detailed logs. Log what you eat, what you did, felt, a super detailed journal. I never make it more than a few days of that.
- loeg 6y ago
  This is a bit odd considering Excedrin (OTC migraine product; not especially great compared to the prescription ones, but it's easier to get) contains caffeine as one of the ingredients. It seems like you're speaking from anecdotal experience rather than any sort of scientific study? If that's not true, can you provide some evidence for your recommendation?
  - ashtonbaker 6y ago
    Anecdotally (and I was under the impression that this was more widely known), caffeine can both cause migraines and give relief from them. Kind of a “hair of the dog” effect.
    - loeg 6y ago
      So as a general recommendation, "if you haven't already, try eliminating caffeine and see if it helps you?" That is probably more useful than "eliminate coffee, trust me."
titzer 6y ago
> Ten subjects were included in the final analysis. ...in the final analysis ... And how many subjects were not included in the final analysis? 10 is tiny in any case. This is noise. Ignore. edit: Thankfully the article does actually include enough information to figure this out. 69 subjects screened, 12 took part. Two dropped out, 1 because of scheduling conflicts, 1 because their migraines went away). I also disagree with their experimental methodology. All 10 were given the placebo on the same day, and then two weeks later all 10 were given the psilocybin on the same day. As this was a local study (all participants in the same town), something as simple as the weather changed could explain the difference. I now will double-plus ignore this study.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Study Title: Exploratory Controlled Study of the Migraine-Suppressing Effects of Psilocybin It is perfectly reasonable exploratory research. This is, of course, a relatively common epistemological failure for many individuals - the reduction of science to a binary proof/refutation system where a study can only transform your priors into a posterior of zero or one, so I guess it's hard to blame you.
  - titzer 6y ago
    > This is, of course, a relatively common epistemological failure for many individuals - the reduction of science to a binary proof/refutation system where a study can only transform your priors into a posterior of zero or one, so I guess it's hard to blame you. Despite the long words in your sentence, this comment amounts to "you foolish binary thinker!" This study has little predictive power and is hardly distinguishable from noise. It has a poor experimental design and is not a good example of how to do research. It deserves a complete do-over with a better design and more subjects.
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      > Despite the long words in your sentence, this comment amounts to "you foolish binary thinker!" I chose the words to not direct any criticism towards your person or identity but to a mistake that I also make sometimes. No insult was intended. But, all right, I won't talk about this with you any more.
newbie789 6y ago
I remember first hearing about this when I read the book LSD by Otto Snow as a teenager. It's kind of fascinating that tryptamines have been anecdotally known to treat migraines and cluster headaches since at least the early 1960s. I myself am lucky to not suffer these, but the horror stories I've heard from my friends make me really sad that we are just now exploring this avenue of treatment.
codazoda 6y ago
Another "it worked for me" story; Lisinopril. I started taking it for mildly high blood pressure and my (almost daily) headache's disappeared. I've since found a couple studies where Lisinopril was tested for headache relief. https://blog.joeldare.com/migraine-headache-solved-by-lisinopril/ https://blog.joeldare.com/migraine-headache-solved-by-lisino...
- sugarkjube 6y ago
  Can confirm, both beta blockers and ace inhibitors worked for me. Went from weekly headeaches taking handfull of paracetamol/ibuprofen to none in years. some other i'm taking now works for 90% . Apparently beta blockers are well known for this, as a neurologist told me a few weeks ago. No clue why it was never mentioned when searching treatment. I found out myself also only after having to take it due to high BP. Still looking for something that works for a relative, tried almost everything, including triptans and vitamin B2 (which I havent seen mentioned yet). Maybe mushrooms would be something to try next.
steve_adams_86 6y ago
For some reason large doses of mushroom generally soothe my body because I tend to relax during and after the trip, but small doses (typical microdose scales) cause me to have quite severe headaches. Not migraine-levels of pain, but leave work and go lay down kind of pain. I wonder what that mechanism is. Why not worse headaches, or any headaches with large doses? Why would such a tiny amount cause so much pain? Has anyone here experienced anything similar? It's a shame because I enjoy the glow of microdoses prior to the delayed onset of the headache. I don't feel anything remotely like a trip, but I do feel a sort of positivity and warmth I otherwise wouldn't. Almost like my mind has slowed down to take a break, and as a result, it feels a little nicer.
galgalesh 6y ago
Cefaly really helps me with my headaches. It uses electric pulses to overstimulate the nerves that end up in the pain-producing parts of the brain. I've been using it for more than a decade now.
groos 6y ago
I have suffered migraines for 40+ years, starting as a young child and I really suffered through the years when I didn't get any medication for it. For the last 15+ years I have treated it episodically using Sumatriptan and it still works 100% for me. Newer formulations such as Rizatriptan, paradoxically, don't work as well. I tried other prophylactic drugs such as valproic acid (worked but liver-toxic and caused weight gain), topiramate (caused loss of stream of though) but the side effects were not worth it. There is one interesting experience which might be of value to other people: for a year I went on a zero carb diet -- and I mean zero with no cheating -- to lose fat. I lost the fat but also lost all migraine episodes as well. Completely migraine free for a year. Just that makes me want to go on the diet again.
- sibeliuss 6y ago
  Out of curiosity why don't you? Is it that the diet vs headache is big tradeoff?
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  For people in my family, white flour specifically is a big trigger, in additional to other substances I listed in other comments (processed food and VOCs). With white flour, I don't even think it is the pesticides, because I know at least one family member for whom it was a trigger before we moved to a country which uses them for everything.
hyperdunc 6y ago
My migraines were caused by cognitive dissonance and distortions in my thinking and emotions - a kind of fractured self that was out of touch with reality. Psychedelics and marijuana helped me to integrate the conflicting aspects of my self. Then the migraines stopped coming. I've heard about other people where the opposite happened - they ended up completely losing their minds.
papito 6y ago
Has anyone successfully used accu-pressure mats (around $35) for migraines? Mine just helps me fall asleep, but many people swear by those with other problems, and my Mom has migraines.
crispycrafter2 6y ago
I've been using Psilocybin to treat chronic migraine for about 5 years already. Discovered it by accident one day during my Uni days. I have subsequently been following the literature on this effect. It annoys me that the opening line of this article reads "in a first of its kind"
raffy 6y ago
I get frequent migraines and they almost always correspond to physical transitions: hot-cold temperature changes or bright-dark. I can reliably induce a migraine by looking at alternating black-and-white lines. I have never experienced more than one migraine in a 24-hr period. For treatment, I've always used a combination of early identification (sudden awareness of own body temperature gradients) plus quick caffeine and marijuana supplementation. When I was younger, the aura was short and the primary issue was the debilitating, long-lasting headache. For the last 5 years or so, I only get the headache-part maybe 25% of time. In exchange, the auras have become instantly debilitating, nauseating, and almost incapacitating. My vision goes from normal, to mangled, to "I can see-but-not-comprehend" what I'm looking at. After some time, the aura lightshow slowly moves offscreen and then I feel fine again.
jwmoz 6y ago
I started experiencing migraines 2 years ago. Just had a 2 month bout of them where at one point I had 3 in a week. Initially I thought that my BJJ training was the issue as there was a direct correlation between training, exertion, neck strain and migraines the next day. But they progressed to migraines from the gym (weights), after a meal and one drink, and even for no apparent reason. I still think there is a link between neck strain which is exacerbated by computer use and eye strain. Sumatriptan saved my life. Maybe this could also help, in small doses.
zedr 6y ago
Do you have an impacted wisdom tooth? Consider getting it extracted, even if it doesn't appear to be causing any problems. It can be the root cause of chronic migraines.
r6203 6y ago
Anyone who also gets debilitating vertigo instead of headaches when having migraines? I’m suffering from vertigo for 17 years now—from multiple times per week to having it only a few times per month. When having an attack/phase getting my head into another position triggers really strong vertigo which is strange. Everything else is ruled out (including bppv). Often times I also have blurry vision, things just feel out of proportion and I’m having a really tense feeling in my face/jaw. (Which may be associated to migraines). I almost never have headache. Someone who feels the same?
herbst 6y ago
Mushies are the one single things that blow away my aura and avoid migraine outbreaks. Even thought they aint legal its fun growing them and easy to grow enough to last a while
wh1t3n01s3 6y ago
This specially true for Cluster Headache (the worst kind of all): https://clusterbusters.org/ https://clusterbusters.org/
forgotmypw17 6y ago
I want to make this a top comment, because I think it could help someone. Eliminating the following has helped me and family members eliminate migraines: * white flour products. * processed food products with preservatives. * VOCs from furniture, new cars, etc. * any kind of synthetic cleaning products, which basically means dr. bronner's soap and nothing else. (If you look at "seventh generation", "mrs meyers", "jason", and other "eco" brands, they're all the same crap as dawn and others. They used to be OK in the beginning, but no more.) It is certainly not easy, and basically requires you to become your own EPA and FDA and be vigilant and strict, and may initially cause tensions in your relationships, but I live in multiple domiciles without having one myself, and I've been able to slowly but surely convert them to Dr. B. No brand is forever, and you have to keep watching it and switch to an alternative when it goes bad. For examples of brands who have already gone bad, see above. Every day we play roulette with our bodies, bombarding them with thousands of synthetic chemicals we did not evolve with, meaning they came about in the last hundred years after millions of years of evolving without them. I think migraines are often "last resort" signals which tell us something is seriously wrong, and we need to stop. I think we're just beginning to come around to this as a society over the past ~50 years, and it is only getting better, but very slowly. If you want to be ahead of the curve, this is it. I think we'll soon look back on this time the same we look back on shoe-fitting X-ray machines from back in the day.
bregma 6y ago
Is there a common definition of "migraine" in use here? Many of the comments here describe tension headaches, cluster headaches, and any other kind of headache lacking a formal diagnosis as a 'migraine'. Many also self-medicate their self-diagnosis. Even the study itself is vague on the definition of 'migraine' other than stating the study was based on rumours of self-medication by self-diagnosed migraine sufferers. The article itself is paywalled, but I suspect subjects were recruited from a base of volunteers answering 'do you suffer from migraines' on a questionnaire. There is, in fact, a medical definition of what a migraine is. It excludes tension headaches, cluster headaches, anxiety-induced headaches, earaches, back and neck injuries (chronic or acute), and even post-concussion headaches.

236 points by futureguy 6y ago

A friend of mine has been using small doses to treat his migraines for years. Such a nice surprise to see this article headline!

spottybanana 6y ago
I use large doses just for fun. It is great. Haven't had migraines either, I think I will keep using just to prevent the migraines.
echlebek 6y ago
A very nice surprise. It's been known anecdotally for many years! (https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_medical1.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_medical1.shtml) Science sure moves slowly when there's artificial barriers in place, like the object of your research being a Schedule I substance.

proverbialbunny 6y ago

I had chronic migraines so bad 4 days out of every week I could not drink water or eat food. I'd puke from the pain. I could barely think straight and in the rarest of situations my mind would pass out from the pain. Migraine medicine and other kinds of medicine I was given did not work at the time, so thinking they might be cluster headaches I turned to 4-aco-dmt, which is psilocin without the psilocybin, so no stomach nausea, but a bit weaker. It didn't stop a migraine once it had started, but it did work as a preventative. I did a little bit larger than a microdose once a week and had no pain, no migraines, no problems, for quite a long time. (A regular full sized dose I could take once every 12 days without migraines.) I turned to 4-aco over mushrooms, because it was legal at the time, and no nausea. I believe it's still legal today, but I haven't kept up. Today, mushrooms are legal/deregulated in parts of the US, including where I live, so it's less of a concern. Today I have a prescription medicine that works. I'm cognizant of taking a single drug for too long. When I look up what I'm currently taking (sumatriptan) people online complain it stops working at 7 years of use. This is great, because now I feel comfortable taking it for 5 years before needing to switch. However, the second I start needing more to function, I'm switching it out. I do not want a life long resistance. That needs to be avoided at all cost. When I was taking the 4-aco I was a bit more cautious, because I can't find online how long it works for migraines. I would rather keep it in my back pocket if I ever need it again, so I went off it the second I found a prescription drug that worked, despite that the 4-aco worked better.

electriclove 6y ago
I tried a sample of sumatriptan once and my head/mind felt so clear. I've been able to manage without prescription meds but have always wondered if normal people felt like that all the time.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  Not for me. It's the opposite. The first two hours after I take it are a come up. My symptoms are different each time I take it: Sometimes I'm half cognizant at that time, sometimes normal. Sometimes I get very sleepy and want to take a nap. Sometimes it makes me feel like I have low blood sugar during the come up and I start mildly shaking needing to eat something. Sometimes an arm or my arms will go to sleep during the come up, which happens to me on lsd (but not mushrooms) as well. But once the come up is over, usually within an hour and a half, I feel completely normal like I took nothing. I'm probably abnormal. I imagine if you take it while you do not have a migraine you'll get a mild heightened experience that may or may not be noticeable. It is, after all, a triptan. Oddly, 4-aco always made my mind feel clear the way you're describing. A bit more awareness, a bit more clarity. On 4-aco I wouldn't notice much or any come up. It was just the effects from the drug getting stronger over the first hour.
- orthecreedence 6y ago
  Interesting. Sumatriptan makes me really loopy and slurs my speech. It can also make my jaw ache really bad, which is usually a sign it's working (it has about a 50% success rate for me). I often think that it works by moving the pain from my brain into my jaw. I never really feel great after taking it, but I'll happily deal with the effects over a migraine any day.
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    Have you been checked for TMJ / teeth grinding? It's a common cause of migraines.
    - 6y ago

Alex3917 6y ago

Anyone doing research on the effects of nicotinic acetylcholine inhibitors mixed with psilocybin? That seems like an obvious avenue for exploration, given we now know that they naturally occur together[1], but I haven't seen any papers on that yet. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260043066_Gymnopilins_a_product_of_a_hallucinogenic_mushroom_inhibit_the_nicotinic_acetylcholine_receptor https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260043066_Gymnopili...

philg_jr 6y ago

A close friend's father uses Psilocybin to treat cluster headaches. He dealt with these debilitating headaches for a long time, basically unable to function as a normal human. This is in the US, and he is a former small business owner (retired), with money, and was able to see numerous specialists, attempted many treatments, all of which were unsuccessful. I'm not sure how he figured out that Psilocybin is an option. Psilocybin is the only thing that relieves his cluster headaches for months at a time. I believe he doses 3ish grams of dried mushrooms, once a day for 2 days. I hope this gets more attention now that some states are decriminalizing Psilocybin. I suspect that other substituted tryptamines would be helpful as well, without needing to digest lots of mushroom fiber (which can be hard on the gut unless you fast for a period of time before consuming them). 4-HO-MET and 4-AcO-DMT comes to mind.

jb1991 6y ago

How do you have a placebo dose of psilocybin?! The effects are very noticable so lack of them would quickly reveal it was a placebo, I'd think. Unless it was not a blind test, in which case this would not matter.

gardnr 6y ago
The articles that I read on this 5 years ago stated that a sub-recreational dose was sufficient to reduce or eliminate cluster headaches for 6 months. The patient doesn't need to take an amount that would get them "high" and the drug is still effective at keeping migraines at bay.
- cpncrunch 6y ago
  Perhaps, but this study wasn't testing a sub-clinical dose. There was a significant psychedelic effect (19.5% vs 3.08% for the placebo).
meetups323 6y ago
Why must we be so quick to discredit placebos? If a certain set of stimuli (someone in a medically authoritative position saying "this thing will help you", followed by you taking it), can be shown to work well at reducing symptoms in clinical studies, why not embrace it?
- jb1991 6y ago
  Nothing wrong with that, but it may be testing something different. Worth testing, but it's a different concern.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  how would this work at scale? people tend to take a dim view of doctors that lie to them. imagine finding out you've been paying $50/month for a sugar pill prescription.
  - meetups323 6y ago

kcmastrpc 6y ago

There is an entire class of migraine medications that is based on triptan-class of drugs. They target similar receptors as psilocybin without the psychoactive effects. I've been using triptans for almost a decade to treat migraines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triptan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triptan

loeg 6y ago
Yeah, my wife has used some triptan-class drug (sumatriptan) for migraines for years.

bfgoodrich 6y ago

I do recreationally partake of psilocybin (for "spiritual" and simply entertainment reasons), and this was something that I personally have noticed: I no longer have migraines. Previously I suffered extreme migraines that would easily knock me out for a day, I couldn't take any medicine or I would vomit it back up, etc. I haven't since my first "shroom" experience. The weird thing is that I get the pre-migraine experience at the same rate, it just isn't followed by a migraine. Previously I'd get the vision distortions that would get worse to the point that I could barely see, and then an extreme migraine would start. I still get those vision distortions (every week or two) just as frequently, but they're followed by just returning to normal. This is obviously single case anecdotal, could be purely coincidental, and I don't encourage anyone to base any action on it, but it was something I literally had a discussion about this weekend.

blacksmith_tb 6y ago
Those distortions are generally called "auras"[1] (though my experience of them is more like a combination of TV static and tunnel vision). I find them to be potentially more unpleasant than the pain that follows, at least if I am not indoors and sitting down (trying to bike home during that is life-threatening; ditto for driving). 1: https://migraine.com/migraine-symptoms/aura/ https://migraine.com/migraine-symptoms/aura/
BatteryMountain 6y ago
Do you consume caffeine btw? Would you say that it affected your migraines possitively/negatively if so?
- plutonorm 6y ago
  I stopped taking caffeine because of a problem with anxiety. My migraines have remained. I do find caffeine helps with the pain of a migraine though. I think sudden reduction in caffeine intake can trigger migraines...
- bfgoodrich 6y ago
  I do consume around three large coffees an average day. I would get a headache from caffeine withdrawal (not a migraine though) so it's been a pretty long time since I've really gone without caffeine. Couldn't say whether caffeine is negative or positive as it's pretty much always been a component.

SebastianKumor 6y ago

Keto diet helped me a lot with my migraines. As soon as i started to eat more carbs again the frequency of my migraines increased. Also wine is a big trigger for me. Would be nice to try this.

forgotmypw17 6y ago
For people in my family, white flour specifically, and also processed food in general, as well as things in the air such as VOCs (sources: plastics, furniture glue, "cleaning" products) are triggers. Once they're eliminated or reduced, the migraines stop. Have you tried anything like this?

orthecreedence 6y ago

Has anybody here ever gotten a migraine that started in one of your teeth? That's the most interesting start to one I've gotten, but I looked it up and couldn't find anything about it anywhere. Maybe it was a fluke.

sixQuarks 6y ago

If you suffer migraines and you drink coffee, STOP drinking coffee immediately. Even if you've been drinking coffee forever with no migraines until recently, trust me, stop the coffee.

SebastianKumor 6y ago
My experience is that caffeine helps me against migraine. Do you take caffeine from some other source ?
- aSockPuppeteer 6y ago
  I switched to ginseng primarily. Green tea some but not much and not daily. I cut out coffee for 3 weeks for another reason and the migraines went away. They come back with stress, not enough breaks from mobile/monitors, and other unknowns. Exercise daily getting your heart rate up has helped also. There’s a migraine book out there about the exclusion diet where you slowly cut things out and make detailed logs. Log what you eat, what you did, felt, a super detailed journal. I never make it more than a few days of that.
loeg 6y ago
This is a bit odd considering Excedrin (OTC migraine product; not especially great compared to the prescription ones, but it's easier to get) contains caffeine as one of the ingredients. It seems like you're speaking from anecdotal experience rather than any sort of scientific study? If that's not true, can you provide some evidence for your recommendation?
- ashtonbaker 6y ago
  Anecdotally (and I was under the impression that this was more widely known), caffeine can both cause migraines and give relief from them. Kind of a “hair of the dog” effect.
  - loeg 6y ago
    So as a general recommendation, "if you haven't already, try eliminating caffeine and see if it helps you?" That is probably more useful than "eliminate coffee, trust me."

titzer 6y ago

> Ten subjects were included in the final analysis. ...in the final analysis ... And how many subjects were not included in the final analysis? 10 is tiny in any case. This is noise. Ignore. edit: Thankfully the article does actually include enough information to figure this out. 69 subjects screened, 12 took part. Two dropped out, 1 because of scheduling conflicts, 1 because their migraines went away). I also disagree with their experimental methodology. All 10 were given the placebo on the same day, and then two weeks later all 10 were given the psilocybin on the same day. As this was a local study (all participants in the same town), something as simple as the weather changed could explain the difference. I now will double-plus ignore this study.

renewiltord 6y ago
Study Title: Exploratory Controlled Study of the Migraine-Suppressing Effects of Psilocybin It is perfectly reasonable exploratory research. This is, of course, a relatively common epistemological failure for many individuals - the reduction of science to a binary proof/refutation system where a study can only transform your priors into a posterior of zero or one, so I guess it's hard to blame you.
- titzer 6y ago
  > This is, of course, a relatively common epistemological failure for many individuals - the reduction of science to a binary proof/refutation system where a study can only transform your priors into a posterior of zero or one, so I guess it's hard to blame you. Despite the long words in your sentence, this comment amounts to "you foolish binary thinker!" This study has little predictive power and is hardly distinguishable from noise. It has a poor experimental design and is not a good example of how to do research. It deserves a complete do-over with a better design and more subjects.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    > Despite the long words in your sentence, this comment amounts to "you foolish binary thinker!" I chose the words to not direct any criticism towards your person or identity but to a mistake that I also make sometimes. No insult was intended. But, all right, I won't talk about this with you any more.

newbie789 6y ago

I remember first hearing about this when I read the book LSD by Otto Snow as a teenager. It's kind of fascinating that tryptamines have been anecdotally known to treat migraines and cluster headaches since at least the early 1960s. I myself am lucky to not suffer these, but the horror stories I've heard from my friends make me really sad that we are just now exploring this avenue of treatment.

codazoda 6y ago

Another "it worked for me" story; Lisinopril. I started taking it for mildly high blood pressure and my (almost daily) headache's disappeared. I've since found a couple studies where Lisinopril was tested for headache relief. https://blog.joeldare.com/migraine-headache-solved-by-lisinopril/ https://blog.joeldare.com/migraine-headache-solved-by-lisino...

sugarkjube 6y ago
Can confirm, both beta blockers and ace inhibitors worked for me. Went from weekly headeaches taking handfull of paracetamol/ibuprofen to none in years. some other i'm taking now works for 90% . Apparently beta blockers are well known for this, as a neurologist told me a few weeks ago. No clue why it was never mentioned when searching treatment. I found out myself also only after having to take it due to high BP. Still looking for something that works for a relative, tried almost everything, including triptans and vitamin B2 (which I havent seen mentioned yet). Maybe mushrooms would be something to try next.

steve_adams_86 6y ago

For some reason large doses of mushroom generally soothe my body because I tend to relax during and after the trip, but small doses (typical microdose scales) cause me to have quite severe headaches. Not migraine-levels of pain, but leave work and go lay down kind of pain. I wonder what that mechanism is. Why not worse headaches, or any headaches with large doses? Why would such a tiny amount cause so much pain? Has anyone here experienced anything similar? It's a shame because I enjoy the glow of microdoses prior to the delayed onset of the headache. I don't feel anything remotely like a trip, but I do feel a sort of positivity and warmth I otherwise wouldn't. Almost like my mind has slowed down to take a break, and as a result, it feels a little nicer.

galgalesh 6y ago

Cefaly really helps me with my headaches. It uses electric pulses to overstimulate the nerves that end up in the pain-producing parts of the brain. I've been using it for more than a decade now.

groos 6y ago

I have suffered migraines for 40+ years, starting as a young child and I really suffered through the years when I didn't get any medication for it. For the last 15+ years I have treated it episodically using Sumatriptan and it still works 100% for me. Newer formulations such as Rizatriptan, paradoxically, don't work as well. I tried other prophylactic drugs such as valproic acid (worked but liver-toxic and caused weight gain), topiramate (caused loss of stream of though) but the side effects were not worth it. There is one interesting experience which might be of value to other people: for a year I went on a zero carb diet -- and I mean zero with no cheating -- to lose fat. I lost the fat but also lost all migraine episodes as well. Completely migraine free for a year. Just that makes me want to go on the diet again.

sibeliuss 6y ago
Out of curiosity why don't you? Is it that the diet vs headache is big tradeoff?
forgotmypw17 6y ago
For people in my family, white flour specifically is a big trigger, in additional to other substances I listed in other comments (processed food and VOCs). With white flour, I don't even think it is the pesticides, because I know at least one family member for whom it was a trigger before we moved to a country which uses them for everything.

hyperdunc 6y ago

My migraines were caused by cognitive dissonance and distortions in my thinking and emotions - a kind of fractured self that was out of touch with reality. Psychedelics and marijuana helped me to integrate the conflicting aspects of my self. Then the migraines stopped coming. I've heard about other people where the opposite happened - they ended up completely losing their minds.

papito 6y ago

Has anyone successfully used accu-pressure mats (around $35) for migraines? Mine just helps me fall asleep, but many people swear by those with other problems, and my Mom has migraines.

crispycrafter2 6y ago

I've been using Psilocybin to treat chronic migraine for about 5 years already. Discovered it by accident one day during my Uni days. I have subsequently been following the literature on this effect. It annoys me that the opening line of this article reads "in a first of its kind"

raffy 6y ago

I get frequent migraines and they almost always correspond to physical transitions: hot-cold temperature changes or bright-dark. I can reliably induce a migraine by looking at alternating black-and-white lines. I have never experienced more than one migraine in a 24-hr period. For treatment, I've always used a combination of early identification (sudden awareness of own body temperature gradients) plus quick caffeine and marijuana supplementation. When I was younger, the aura was short and the primary issue was the debilitating, long-lasting headache. For the last 5 years or so, I only get the headache-part maybe 25% of time. In exchange, the auras have become instantly debilitating, nauseating, and almost incapacitating. My vision goes from normal, to mangled, to "I can see-but-not-comprehend" what I'm looking at. After some time, the aura lightshow slowly moves offscreen and then I feel fine again.

jwmoz 6y ago

I started experiencing migraines 2 years ago. Just had a 2 month bout of them where at one point I had 3 in a week. Initially I thought that my BJJ training was the issue as there was a direct correlation between training, exertion, neck strain and migraines the next day. But they progressed to migraines from the gym (weights), after a meal and one drink, and even for no apparent reason. I still think there is a link between neck strain which is exacerbated by computer use and eye strain. Sumatriptan saved my life. Maybe this could also help, in small doses.

zedr 6y ago

Do you have an impacted wisdom tooth? Consider getting it extracted, even if it doesn't appear to be causing any problems. It can be the root cause of chronic migraines.

r6203 6y ago

Anyone who also gets debilitating vertigo instead of headaches when having migraines? I’m suffering from vertigo for 17 years now—from multiple times per week to having it only a few times per month. When having an attack/phase getting my head into another position triggers really strong vertigo which is strange. Everything else is ruled out (including bppv). Often times I also have blurry vision, things just feel out of proportion and I’m having a really tense feeling in my face/jaw. (Which may be associated to migraines). I almost never have headache. Someone who feels the same?

herbst 6y ago

Mushies are the one single things that blow away my aura and avoid migraine outbreaks. Even thought they aint legal its fun growing them and easy to grow enough to last a while

wh1t3n01s3 6y ago

This specially true for Cluster Headache (the worst kind of all): https://clusterbusters.org/ https://clusterbusters.org/

forgotmypw17 6y ago

I want to make this a top comment, because I think it could help someone. Eliminating the following has helped me and family members eliminate migraines: * white flour products. * processed food products with preservatives. * VOCs from furniture, new cars, etc. * any kind of synthetic cleaning products, which basically means dr. bronner's soap and nothing else. (If you look at "seventh generation", "mrs meyers", "jason", and other "eco" brands, they're all the same crap as dawn and others. They used to be OK in the beginning, but no more.) It is certainly not easy, and basically requires you to become your own EPA and FDA and be vigilant and strict, and may initially cause tensions in your relationships, but I live in multiple domiciles without having one myself, and I've been able to slowly but surely convert them to Dr. B. No brand is forever, and you have to keep watching it and switch to an alternative when it goes bad. For examples of brands who have already gone bad, see above. Every day we play roulette with our bodies, bombarding them with thousands of synthetic chemicals we did not evolve with, meaning they came about in the last hundred years after millions of years of evolving without them. I think migraines are often "last resort" signals which tell us something is seriously wrong, and we need to stop. I think we're just beginning to come around to this as a society over the past ~50 years, and it is only getting better, but very slowly. If you want to be ahead of the curve, this is it. I think we'll soon look back on this time the same we look back on shoe-fitting X-ray machines from back in the day.

bregma 6y ago

Is there a common definition of "migraine" in use here? Many of the comments here describe tension headaches, cluster headaches, and any other kind of headache lacking a formal diagnosis as a 'migraine'. Many also self-medicate their self-diagnosis. Even the study itself is vague on the definition of 'migraine' other than stating the study was based on rumours of self-medication by self-diagnosed migraine sufferers. The article itself is paywalled, but I suspect subjects were recruited from a base of volunteers answering 'do you suffer from migraines' on a questionnaire. There is, in fact, a medical definition of what a migraine is. It excludes tension headaches, cluster headaches, anxiety-induced headaches, earaches, back and neck injuries (chronic or acute), and even post-concussion headaches.