4 ms·

This is so utterly predictable. People flock to "free" services and give away all their data to do so. People buy "cheap" printers, and sign up for extortiona

This is so utterly predictable. People flock to "free" services and give away all their data to do so. People buy "cheap" printers, and sign up for extortionate ink programs to do so. We have a car maker to "takes back" software options sold when the car was new on re-sale of that car. No we have people buying "cheap" Wi-Fi routers which are subsidized by their ability to be used by third parties for nefarious purposes. Caveat Emptor only goes so far. The ability to fleece people through technology has been known and exploited for a long time, I wonder if we will ever see a consensus backlash against it.

deeeeplearning 6y ago
>Caveat Emptor only goes so far This is key. The general public has a very basic understanding of tech generally and even less about what can be done with their data.
judge2020 6y ago
It's because people often value their time more than money. Free services win because everyone can start using it and depending on it in 5 minutes, instead of having to pay for and download a comparable product, or worse, maintain an OSS alternative on a home server. The only time a consumer chooses to pay for something is when it's as entrenched into their minds as MS Office is, or when their employer/school demands it (also MS Office). HP's ink is so successful since you can now just have it show up at your door when you're low on ink instead of having to make a trip to best buy. The extortionate price of unit-sold cartridges is only extra motivation. And Tesla is only big because they have an appealing product; if other car manufacturers could offer the same (EV) range, software experience, and minimalistic design, they'd blow Tesla out of the water with superior service and build quality. Now this cheap Wi-Fi router isn't something people are buying because it's comparatively better or offers some features, it's just a cheap Chinese wifi router that some corporate Wal-Mart manager decided to stock since it would be high-margin and, as far as they know, offered basic wifi functionality. Your argument would work for any other (high end) router like Nest WiFi, Netgear, etc.
iso1631 6y ago
Review from 2 years ago: https://mashable.com/shopping/oct-11-deal-walmart-jetstream-wifi-routers/?europe=true https://mashable.com/shopping/oct-11-deal-walmart-jetstream-... "WiFi routers always seem to make you sacrifice something, don't they? You're either paying for speed and spending an ungodly amount of money, or opting for the budget pick and waiting forever for things to load. You shouldn't have to make that choice. One bright spot on the WiFi landscape could come from an unlikely place: Walmart. The big box store is gearing up to save you money and headaches by launching a line of store-exclusive routers that minimize cost and maximize performance." The cheap end were $35.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
  Router prices have boggled my mind for a while now. I bought routers on amazon for $10-15 bucks about 5 years ago and they were fine. No issues and just some cheap brand. Then one day I stepped into a best buy and a guy came up to ask me if I needed anything and I said "do you have any routers cheaper than well...$40?" The guy scoffed and said "Not if you want a good one." He then proceeds to show me a $100 one made for like 1gigibit internet and like 10 ports. I said "Nah I'll just go on amazon, thanks."
  - iso1631 6y ago
    2G+5G Routers with built in access points to support a multi-hundered mbit uplink? If you just want a simple 2.4Ghz access point for a typical 60mbit dsl you could probably get away with something like https://mikrotik.com/product/RB931-2nD https://mikrotik.com/product/RB931-2nD for $20. Obviously supports all the essentials you need from a home router (dhcp servers, natting, ospf+bgp, various vpns, etc), as well as things like mpls and vpls capability.
choward 6y ago
People buy "smart" TVs which are subsidized by an integrated computer used to track and advertise to you.
- ChuckMcM 6y ago
  Yup, same trade-off. Now I'm a free market kind of guy and don't mind that people make such TVs and that some people choose to buy them over ones that don't do this. But I am saddened by the ability of this larger chunk of market to eliminate the option of a TV that isn't smart and doesn't do this. I have no idea how to fix that or even put pressure on it from happening.
jml7c5 6y ago
>No we have people buying "cheap" Wi-Fi routers which are subsidized by their ability to be used by third parties for nefarious purposes. You're assuming a) that the router is subsidized, and b) that the flaws are intentional. Neither are necessary, and neither make a lot of sense (why add a backdoor that anyone can exploit?) It makes way more sense to consider this just another poorly made budget product. Same as anything else where sticker price is all that matters.

deeeeplearning 6y ago

>Caveat Emptor only goes so far This is key. The general public has a very basic understanding of tech generally and even less about what can be done with their data.

judge2020 6y ago

It's because people often value their time more than money. Free services win because everyone can start using it and depending on it in 5 minutes, instead of having to pay for and download a comparable product, or worse, maintain an OSS alternative on a home server. The only time a consumer chooses to pay for something is when it's as entrenched into their minds as MS Office is, or when their employer/school demands it (also MS Office). HP's ink is so successful since you can now just have it show up at your door when you're low on ink instead of having to make a trip to best buy. The extortionate price of unit-sold cartridges is only extra motivation. And Tesla is only big because they have an appealing product; if other car manufacturers could offer the same (EV) range, software experience, and minimalistic design, they'd blow Tesla out of the water with superior service and build quality. Now this cheap Wi-Fi router isn't something people are buying because it's comparatively better or offers some features, it's just a cheap Chinese wifi router that some corporate Wal-Mart manager decided to stock since it would be high-margin and, as far as they know, offered basic wifi functionality. Your argument would work for any other (high end) router like Nest WiFi, Netgear, etc.

iso1631 6y ago

Review from 2 years ago: https://mashable.com/shopping/oct-11-deal-walmart-jetstream-wifi-routers/?europe=true https://mashable.com/shopping/oct-11-deal-walmart-jetstream-... "WiFi routers always seem to make you sacrifice something, don't they? You're either paying for speed and spending an ungodly amount of money, or opting for the budget pick and waiting forever for things to load. You shouldn't have to make that choice. One bright spot on the WiFi landscape could come from an unlikely place: Walmart. The big box store is gearing up to save you money and headaches by launching a line of store-exclusive routers that minimize cost and maximize performance." The cheap end were $35.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Router prices have boggled my mind for a while now. I bought routers on amazon for $10-15 bucks about 5 years ago and they were fine. No issues and just some cheap brand. Then one day I stepped into a best buy and a guy came up to ask me if I needed anything and I said "do you have any routers cheaper than well...$40?" The guy scoffed and said "Not if you want a good one." He then proceeds to show me a $100 one made for like 1gigibit internet and like 10 ports. I said "Nah I'll just go on amazon, thanks."
- iso1631 6y ago
  2G+5G Routers with built in access points to support a multi-hundered mbit uplink? If you just want a simple 2.4Ghz access point for a typical 60mbit dsl you could probably get away with something like https://mikrotik.com/product/RB931-2nD https://mikrotik.com/product/RB931-2nD for $20. Obviously supports all the essentials you need from a home router (dhcp servers, natting, ospf+bgp, various vpns, etc), as well as things like mpls and vpls capability.

choward 6y ago

People buy "smart" TVs which are subsidized by an integrated computer used to track and advertise to you.

ChuckMcM 6y ago
Yup, same trade-off. Now I'm a free market kind of guy and don't mind that people make such TVs and that some people choose to buy them over ones that don't do this. But I am saddened by the ability of this larger chunk of market to eliminate the option of a TV that isn't smart and doesn't do this. I have no idea how to fix that or even put pressure on it from happening.

jml7c5 6y ago

>No we have people buying "cheap" Wi-Fi routers which are subsidized by their ability to be used by third parties for nefarious purposes. You're assuming a) that the router is subsidized, and b) that the flaws are intentional. Neither are necessary, and neither make a lot of sense (why add a backdoor that anyone can exploit?) It makes way more sense to consider this just another poorly made budget product. Same as anything else where sticker price is all that matters.