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> "... more credence with mainstream economists" Do you follow main stream economists today? Ray Dalio (Bridgewater), Jeffrey Gundlach (Double Line), Raoul Pal

> "... more credence with mainstream economists" Do you follow main stream economists today? Ray Dalio (Bridgewater), Jeffrey Gundlach (Double Line), Raoul Pal (Real Vision), and Warren Buffet (Berkshire) have made very big bets for Gold and Gold stocks because our currency is being debased at a rate we have never seen.

throwaway2048 6y ago
none of those people are economists, and that is in no meaningful way a statement on bretton woods
- justinzollars 6y ago
  We have had 3 crisis in 20 years. Safe to say they have gotten some things totally wrong.
Afforess 6y ago
> our currency is being debased at a rate we have never seen. Looks at $1 gasoline. Looks at $2 eggs. Looks at $3 gallon of milk. Debased. Sure thing. (Maybe gasoline is an unfair example, but essential good prices are largely unchanged in the last decade. The point stands)
- justinzollars 6y ago
  Sounds like you are going down with the ship. Its completely irrational to believe you can print yourself into prosperity. I could just as easily point to Tech stocks, Tesla, gold, silver, bitcoin or any other inflated commodity as a counterpoint.
  - CarelessExpert 6y ago
    > Its completely irrational to believe you can print yourself into prosperity. This is clearly a straw man. MMT provides an alternative theoretical basis that might explain the apparent disconnect between money supply and inflation: https://www.investopedia.com/modern-monetary-theory-mmt-4588060 https://www.investopedia.com/modern-monetary-theory-mmt-4588... > According to MMT, the only limit the government has when it comes to spending is the availability of real resources, like workers, construction supplies etc. When government spending, meaning the amount of money introduced into the economy, is too great with respect to the resources available, that's when inflation can surge if decision makers are not careful.
    - justinzollars 6y ago
      MMT promises money for nothing and the debt for free. The idea isn't modern - its just debasement with a new name. As old as humanity.
      - CarelessExpert 6y ago
        Well, that's twice, now, that you've caricatured ideas you don't agree with, choosing to knock down straw men instead of engaging in a genuine discussion, and that means there's little point in continuing. Have a nice day!
    - notahacker 6y ago
      In between the extremes of 'hard money' enthusiasts arguing that the amount of money an economy needs to grow automagically happens to coincide with levels of worldwide gold mining and MMTers (and 1950s Keynesians) arguing it coincides with whatever the government needs to spend is basically the entire field of economics and the mechanism the money supply actually operates based on (which is central banks looking at numbers to ensure the supply of and demand for credit are in balance)
- jkepler 6y ago
  True, but when you compare the price of housing, rent, higher education, or health care, or art, you'll see a different story. The Consumer Price Index (at least in the US) excludes so many things as to not be a real measure of the dollar's buying power. If the dollar isn't debasing, how do we explain so many sectors with rising prices? Is college education today really multiple times more valuable than 10 or 20 years ago, or have dollars lost real value? Perhaps the basic consumer goods you mentioned continue to benefit from the deflationary effect of automation and technology, thus their prices fall in real terms (assuming that the dollar has lost value during the last decade, given rising prices in the sectors I mentioned). I think we're in a period of both dollar inflation (due to the Fed's monetary policy and government's continued debt spending) and deflation (due to technology/automation and the Eurodollar system's global demand for dollars), resulting in dollar debasement while many everyday consumer items retain their nominal price or even decline in dollar terms.
  - mordymoop 6y ago
    College education is probably mostly explained as being a positional good being propped up by a bubble. On the other hand, I actually agree with you that inflation may have sneaked into specific domains. Eggs are cheap, but we've also gotten much, much better at making eggs cheaply. A static egg price actually implies inflation, if it costs less to produce an egg.
jasonhansel 6y ago
Those are investors, not economists. Also: the Forbes article about Buffett buying one gold-related stock notes that: "Mr. Buffett is not a fan of gold as an investment. " (Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertberger/2020/08/28/warren-buffetts-gold/?sh=3290c8d66a63 https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertberger/2020/08/28/warren-... )
- justinzollars 6y ago
  He has never liked it. But the fact stands he still bought it.
IanDrake 6y ago
Gold is nothing more than a bet against global currencies. Gold producers, on the other hand, one of their biggest expenses is fuel. Fuel is cheap and Gold is fairly high. Combining those two seems like a good investment for a time.

throwaway2048 6y ago

none of those people are economists, and that is in no meaningful way a statement on bretton woods

justinzollars 6y ago
We have had 3 crisis in 20 years. Safe to say they have gotten some things totally wrong.

Afforess 6y ago

> our currency is being debased at a rate we have never seen. Looks at $1 gasoline. Looks at $2 eggs. Looks at $3 gallon of milk. Debased. Sure thing. (Maybe gasoline is an unfair example, but essential good prices are largely unchanged in the last decade. The point stands)

justinzollars 6y ago
Sounds like you are going down with the ship. Its completely irrational to believe you can print yourself into prosperity. I could just as easily point to Tech stocks, Tesla, gold, silver, bitcoin or any other inflated commodity as a counterpoint.
- CarelessExpert 6y ago
  > Its completely irrational to believe you can print yourself into prosperity. This is clearly a straw man. MMT provides an alternative theoretical basis that might explain the apparent disconnect between money supply and inflation: https://www.investopedia.com/modern-monetary-theory-mmt-4588060 https://www.investopedia.com/modern-monetary-theory-mmt-4588... > According to MMT, the only limit the government has when it comes to spending is the availability of real resources, like workers, construction supplies etc. When government spending, meaning the amount of money introduced into the economy, is too great with respect to the resources available, that's when inflation can surge if decision makers are not careful.
  - justinzollars 6y ago
    MMT promises money for nothing and the debt for free. The idea isn't modern - its just debasement with a new name. As old as humanity.
    - CarelessExpert 6y ago
      Well, that's twice, now, that you've caricatured ideas you don't agree with, choosing to knock down straw men instead of engaging in a genuine discussion, and that means there's little point in continuing. Have a nice day!
  - notahacker 6y ago
    In between the extremes of 'hard money' enthusiasts arguing that the amount of money an economy needs to grow automagically happens to coincide with levels of worldwide gold mining and MMTers (and 1950s Keynesians) arguing it coincides with whatever the government needs to spend is basically the entire field of economics and the mechanism the money supply actually operates based on (which is central banks looking at numbers to ensure the supply of and demand for credit are in balance)
jkepler 6y ago
True, but when you compare the price of housing, rent, higher education, or health care, or art, you'll see a different story. The Consumer Price Index (at least in the US) excludes so many things as to not be a real measure of the dollar's buying power. If the dollar isn't debasing, how do we explain so many sectors with rising prices? Is college education today really multiple times more valuable than 10 or 20 years ago, or have dollars lost real value? Perhaps the basic consumer goods you mentioned continue to benefit from the deflationary effect of automation and technology, thus their prices fall in real terms (assuming that the dollar has lost value during the last decade, given rising prices in the sectors I mentioned). I think we're in a period of both dollar inflation (due to the Fed's monetary policy and government's continued debt spending) and deflation (due to technology/automation and the Eurodollar system's global demand for dollars), resulting in dollar debasement while many everyday consumer items retain their nominal price or even decline in dollar terms.
- mordymoop 6y ago
  College education is probably mostly explained as being a positional good being propped up by a bubble. On the other hand, I actually agree with you that inflation may have sneaked into specific domains. Eggs are cheap, but we've also gotten much, much better at making eggs cheaply. A static egg price actually implies inflation, if it costs less to produce an egg.

jasonhansel 6y ago

Those are investors, not economists. Also: the Forbes article about Buffett buying one gold-related stock notes that: "Mr. Buffett is not a fan of gold as an investment. " (Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertberger/2020/08/28/warren-buffetts-gold/?sh=3290c8d66a63 https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertberger/2020/08/28/warren-... )

justinzollars 6y ago
He has never liked it. But the fact stands he still bought it.

IanDrake 6y ago

Gold is nothing more than a bet against global currencies. Gold producers, on the other hand, one of their biggest expenses is fuel. Fuel is cheap and Gold is fairly high. Combining those two seems like a good investment for a time.