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What matters to me is that this shouldn't be physically possible. I don't want a car that can be stolen using Bluetooth.
by driverdan 6y ago
What matters to me is that this shouldn't be physically possible. I don't want a car that can be stolen using Bluetooth.
- baggachipz 6y agoThen prepare for disappointment as most other car manufacturers move to this "phone key" interface. As a Tesla owner, it's incredibly convenient and I still think it's more secure than the old-school key model. Hell, wireless fobs have a history riddled with security holes and easy hacks.
- shyn3 6y agoIf your car gets stolen can you call Tesla and have them shut it down?
- baggachipz 6y agoYes. Or, even better, I can do it myself via the app or website.
- joijoiwejrr 6y agoWhat happens if the person is driving at high speed when the signal comes to shut the car down? Does it only take effect when they park? Do they get a warning before parking that the car will shut down when they do?
- DennisP 6y agoI don't know the answer but with Autopilot or FSD it's possible that the car could safely slow down and park itself.
- tjoff 6y agoNo, it can not safely do that.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- 14 6y agoThe same thing that happens to an gas car your car would lose power and you would roll to a stop. This actually happened to me on my motorcycle I was going high speed on a windy road and just had passed 2 cars and moved in front of them and my engine died. It’s not fun but shutting the car off at any moment should be no different then any car breaking down.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoIt happens, I mean I've stupidly run out of fuel on the highway before. I think this is something that should be practiced at least once while taking driving lessons (like how you practice emergency braking and evasion on a motorbike)
- bdamm 6y agoTesla (at least M3s) cannot be remotely disabled when driving. But the owner can make life seriously problematic for the thieves; the car' location is tracked down to the meter, the horn and windows and sometimes music can be remotely controlled, along with the climate controls. So the thieves will have a very unpleasant ride culminating in a police event if they choose to continue. Disabling the remote access from inside the car requires authentication.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoI'm sure professional thieves would know how to disable the GPS tracker quick enough. I had a colleague of mine whose BMW was broken into at night. He woke up to police in front of his house (called by BMW's own alert system), there's an atmospheric pressure sensor inside the car and everything. No sign of the thieves, so he booked an appointment to have the window fixed and didn't think much of it. But then he realized the side panel (in the door column? the column between the front and rear doors) was tweaked over a bit. The thieves had gone in and cut the cable tree going to the roof of the car, which contains amongst other things the antenna and connection to BMW's alert service. Their plan was to come in the one night, disappear, hope the victim didn't notice that (and the garage doesn't check for it), and come in to steal it for real the next day, or maybe even the same night after the police has gone again.
- bdamm 6y agoThat's a remarkable amount of work to steal the car. Probably they tried to steal it right then and there, thieves don't like to return to a crime scene. For Tesla, if they really want they could pry open the frunk and remove the 12V power from the low-voltage battery, then winch the car onto a flatbed. That would disable the GPS tracking and allow access to make money parting out the car. Although not the motors, which are locked to the VCSEC and the owner's configured keys, and bypassing that is still an open problem AFAIK.
- PopeDotNinja 6y agoA week ago I learned how hard it is to sell a used iPhone. A factory reset isn’t enough. I got $500 cash from some kid, he contacted me saying he couldn’t log in, and I then spent hours googling “how to sell used iPhone” and communicating via google translate what he was seeing. That was fun. It turned out I needed to wipe the data using iCloud and then remove the device from my account. I wonder how involved selling a used Tesla will become.
- sgerenser 6y agoThe only thing you need to do before selling an iPhone (or iPad) is go into Settings->General->Reset->Erase All Contents and Settings. This will prompt you for your iCloud password and remove the iCloud lock and wipe the device. Source: sold at least a dozen iPhones and iPads since iCloud lock has been a thing.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pricechild 6y agoProbably best you don't look into the security of other manufacturer's keyless entry systems... Many people refer to it as "relay theft" since historically it's often just a matter of relaying/repeating a signal - there may be no real authentication involved. Around physical security, I'm often reminded that "locks are for honest thieves".
- piyh 6y agoMy car unlocks keyless, but needs a key and immobilizer chip to be present to drive. Anyone can break a window to steal your stuff, getting a duplicate immobilizer chip is hard and usually requires an inside man in a dealer network.
- 8ytecoder 6y agoMy car allows remote lock but has no feature to unlock via the app at all. And in addition the key has to be present inside the car to drive.
- egwor 6y agoIf they can boost the signal of the key, then it would appear that the key is in the car. The car is unlikely to stop if the key signal is lost due to safety concerns.
- yellowapple 6y agoWould triangulation solve at least the signal boost part of the equation? A car thief would have a heck of a time trying to violate the laws of physics to trick that, no?
- yencabulator 6y agoNo need to triangulate, just measure round-trip time.
- taylortbb 6y agoThe proprietary RF systems other manufacturers use aren't likely to be any more secure. They're just less analyzed. Keyless ignition is popular enough with consumers it's likely here to stay.
- beached_whale 6y agoSDR is cheap too, less so for transmission, but still not expensive compared to the cars themselves.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoI don't believe they're less analyzed; they're just less published about. Car theft is a big industry. The last one I heard about was keyless entry systems being abused; thieves carry a briefcase-sized antenna around, amplifying and directing the signal from the car asking the key fob to unlock. Of course, ideally they want to break into your house and grab the key.
- tsomctl 6y agoI dunno. I have a 30 year old 4Runner. Any key from any Japanese car will start it. Or a screw driver.
- jeffbee 6y agoYeah people really overestimate the security of regular keys. The key of my 1985 Mazda would open about 10% of all 1985 Mazda cars. The lock of a standard US house door can be picked by a 9-year-old child in seconds (source: my 9-year-old child). They are superficial security measures.
- londons_explore 6y agoUS doors always allow unlocking from the inside (fire regulations?)...
- jeffbee 6y agoI'm talking about from the outside. Anyone can learn to pick a mainstream US residential door lock, even Hollywood film style, with a paperclip, in seconds.
- aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 6y agoWith or without a tension wrench?
- jeffbee 6y agoHere's a (crop from a) photo of a small child who has just picked a front door lock with a bent paper clip and a small screwdriver for the tension. This was not an exercise; we were really locked out! https://imgur.com/a/1leW6Ij https://imgur.com/a/1leW6Ij
- aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 6y agoNicely done.
- cortesoft 6y agoWhy is that worse than being hot wired? Probably more people can hot wire a car than can steal it with Bluetooth.
- willcipriano 6y agoModern ignition systems are digital. From what I've been told its hard to hotwire modern cars.
- bluGill 6y agoNo car since 1980 or before. You might be able to hot wire it to get it to run, but the steering wheel lock will stop you from driving it. In anything since around 2000 the key has a unique id running public key encryption to ensure that only paired keys work. I believe most stolen cars are sent to a "chop shop". There are plenty of useful parts that can be sold. You don't need to start it or worry about someone tracing the vin if you just take untraceable parts off the car.
- sircastor 6y agoI think the implication is that software is easier than hot wiring or breaking a window. This is the stance I take when I’m looking at replacing my door locks. I read reviews that talk about the super secure Schlege lock being picked easily and feel like there’s no recourse, until I remember a criminal is more likely to simply put a brick through a window to get in than pick the lock.
- driverdan 6y ago> Why is that worse than being hot wired? When did I say that?
- cortesoft 6y agoThe implication was that the other ways to steal a car weren't deal breakers, but being able to steal the car via bluetooth was simply unacceptable. My question was why you didn't say "I won't buy a car that can be stolen", why does it matter what the method is?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- oh_sigh 6y agoA million products have features you don't like. You simply don't buy them. It's not like Tesla has a monopoly on the car market, or even the EV market.