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Thom, if you're so convinced that the financial industry provides so little benefit to modern society, why don't you try and live in a country without one. The

by Nrsolis 15y ago

Thom, if you're so convinced that the financial industry provides so little benefit to modern society, why don't you try and live in a country without one. The Great Depression in the US (which effectively wiped out a significant portion of the financial industry here) was the source of much misery and pain. Pick up a book on bond valuation and capital allocation and tell me if YOU would like to do that work for yourself. Finance is hard won and specialized knowledge. Don't dismiss that expertise.

ThomPete 15y ago
Why the strawman? I never said it wasn't of any value. I have repeatedly clarified that I am talking in the context of this article and about certain parts of the financial industry, namely the part can afford to pay better than anyone else. The developers working on your average netbank aren't in question here their salaries are not extreme. All I am saying is that the kind of developers that the OP is talking about are being lost to parts of the financial industry that aren't providing value to society but primarily to themselves and I find that problematic. That has nothing to do with my view of other parts of the banking industry.
- Nrsolis 15y ago
  They aren't being "lost" to the financial industry. They are proving "value" to the consumers of those (valuable) services. You could make the same argument for home health care workers and cardiac nurses. Potential home health care workers aren't "lost" to the nursing industry. Society VALUES what they provide to a greater degree because it compensates them more. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that a career in the financial services industry is a guarantee of high-income. The truth is quite different. Life in the financial services industry has its own downsides (insecurity of income, long hours, poor working conditions generally) which you seem to be glossing over to make your argument. On my last flight to Mountain View, I sat next to a guy who left a job at Goldman Sachs (as a broker) to go do ad sales for Google. His reason: better working conditions and quality of life. Don't assume that your choices are everyone else's. The high pay in the financial services industry is there because the work is hard and few people can or are willing to do it.
  - ThomPete 15y ago
    Maybe you should read the entire thread here and see what the argument is all about. You seem to be arguing against claims I am not making. I have worked with everyone from Bofa to citibank to online trading services to private wealth. I think I have a pretty good idea about who is paid what and what they are paid for. So again instead of arguing a strawman why not talk about what I am actually claiming.
    - Nrsolis 15y ago
      I read the whole thread and it doesn't change my argument. You don't seem to understand economics or different value systems. Obviously SOME people make the choice to go do startups even though they could make more MONEY (at least initially) at an IB. Wonder how that happened?
      - ThomPete 15y ago
        Dude, what's up with the attitude? This have nothing to do with understanding economics or value systems. You keep repeating the same strawmen that have nothing to do with my argument. Why don't you point to something I said specifically instead of just weaving an argument against claims I am not making.
        Nrsolis 15y ago
        Here is my problem: I see a lot of finance industry bashing in between the lines of your post. You're making an argument about the choices that individuals make based on their own personal goals and circumstances. When you bemoan the choices that other people make under the guise of "what's best for society" you're making a statement that you think differently and that inevitably leads to calls for the state (or some other authority) to involve itself.
        ThomPete 15y ago
        Sorry but that is your problem not mine. Whatever you think I am putting in between the lines is up in your head. As I said, you are attacking a strawman, a position I don't hold. I have been pretty precise in what I mean and what part of the industry I am referring to. If you can't get paste seeing ghosts then obviously you have a problem, but it's not me nor my post.

by Nrsolis 15y ago

ThomPete 15y ago

Why the strawman? I never said it wasn't of any value. I have repeatedly clarified that I am talking in the context of this article and about certain parts of the financial industry, namely the part can afford to pay better than anyone else. The developers working on your average netbank aren't in question here their salaries are not extreme. All I am saying is that the kind of developers that the OP is talking about are being lost to parts of the financial industry that aren't providing value to society but primarily to themselves and I find that problematic. That has nothing to do with my view of other parts of the banking industry.

Nrsolis 15y ago
They aren't being "lost" to the financial industry. They are proving "value" to the consumers of those (valuable) services. You could make the same argument for home health care workers and cardiac nurses. Potential home health care workers aren't "lost" to the nursing industry. Society VALUES what they provide to a greater degree because it compensates them more. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that a career in the financial services industry is a guarantee of high-income. The truth is quite different. Life in the financial services industry has its own downsides (insecurity of income, long hours, poor working conditions generally) which you seem to be glossing over to make your argument. On my last flight to Mountain View, I sat next to a guy who left a job at Goldman Sachs (as a broker) to go do ad sales for Google. His reason: better working conditions and quality of life. Don't assume that your choices are everyone else's. The high pay in the financial services industry is there because the work is hard and few people can or are willing to do it.
- ThomPete 15y ago
  Maybe you should read the entire thread here and see what the argument is all about. You seem to be arguing against claims I am not making. I have worked with everyone from Bofa to citibank to online trading services to private wealth. I think I have a pretty good idea about who is paid what and what they are paid for. So again instead of arguing a strawman why not talk about what I am actually claiming.
  - Nrsolis 15y ago
    I read the whole thread and it doesn't change my argument. You don't seem to understand economics or different value systems. Obviously SOME people make the choice to go do startups even though they could make more MONEY (at least initially) at an IB. Wonder how that happened?
    - ThomPete 15y ago
      Dude, what's up with the attitude? This have nothing to do with understanding economics or value systems. You keep repeating the same strawmen that have nothing to do with my argument. Why don't you point to something I said specifically instead of just weaving an argument against claims I am not making.
      - Nrsolis 15y ago
        Here is my problem: I see a lot of finance industry bashing in between the lines of your post. You're making an argument about the choices that individuals make based on their own personal goals and circumstances. When you bemoan the choices that other people make under the guise of "what's best for society" you're making a statement that you think differently and that inevitably leads to calls for the state (or some other authority) to involve itself.
        ThomPete 15y ago
        Sorry but that is your problem not mine. Whatever you think I am putting in between the lines is up in your head. As I said, you are attacking a strawman, a position I don't hold. I have been pretty precise in what I mean and what part of the industry I am referring to. If you can't get paste seeing ghosts then obviously you have a problem, but it's not me nor my post.