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One fantastic multi-paradigm-from-the-start language that often gets missed out is Mozart/Oz - http://mozart2.org http://mozart2.org . This language is used in

by sriku 6y ago

One fantastic multi-paradigm-from-the-start language that often gets missed out is Mozart/Oz - http://mozart2.org http://mozart2.org . This language is used in the awesome book "Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming" by Peter van Roy and Seif Haridi - https://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/book.html https://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/book.html

rramadass 6y ago
This is a great and mind expanding book/System. However since Mozart/Oz does not seem to be used that much in the "real world", i think it maybe worthwhile to investigate application of the same ideas to a mix of Erlang and C/C++.
- edfalis 6y ago
  Although it's nominally about C++, this book looks at the design issues for selecting among paradigms based on application characteristics. IE it generalizes to other languages capable of supporting multiple paradigms. https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Paradigm-Design-C-James-Coplien/dp/0201824671/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=coplien+multiparadigm+programming&qid=1606226686&s=books&sr=1-1 https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Paradigm-Design-C-James-Coplien...
Wildgoose 6y ago
Just wanted to add my recommendation for Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming" by Peter van Roy and Seif Haridi. This is an amazingly thorough, comprehensive and erudite work. Highly recommended.
nextos 6y ago
Mozart/Oz is so underrated. It's a shame it never took off. AliceML was also an interesting hybrid of Oz + SML.
- mncharity 6y ago
  > Mozart/Oz is so underrated. It's a shame it never took off. The documentation was a major barrier. More so than any other language (trying for public adoption) that I can immediately think of. A textbook-expensive dead-tree book as onboarding path. With the usual pattern of commercial thing reducing incentive to create accessible thing, without fully meeting the need for same. And online documentation that was fragmented and poorly integrated. So "looking up" a topic would involve groveling over a pile of documents, and lecture notes and such, searching out pieces of the puzzle, and pulling them together yourself. So much niftiness, so inaccessibly documented. :/ I once massaged together a distributed table of contents[1] (long since link rotted), which might give a feel for it. Part of the problem was M/Oz was at heart a teaching and academic effort - think of early Racket. One of the hardest things about capturing history (and perhaps a fruitful way to teach it?) is the "wait, they wat?!!?". Picking up a language now, with expectations of how language and ecosystem are documented, and HN kibitzing on "the landing page should be improved by ...", reflects a big cultural learning process on how to do this well. Mozart/Oz, didn't. [1] http://www.vendian.org/oz/wiki/index.cgi?VirtualManual http://www.vendian.org/oz/wiki/index.cgi?VirtualManual

by sriku 6y ago

rramadass 6y ago

This is a great and mind expanding book/System. However since Mozart/Oz does not seem to be used that much in the "real world", i think it maybe worthwhile to investigate application of the same ideas to a mix of Erlang and C/C++.

edfalis 6y ago
Although it's nominally about C++, this book looks at the design issues for selecting among paradigms based on application characteristics. IE it generalizes to other languages capable of supporting multiple paradigms. https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Paradigm-Design-C-James-Coplien/dp/0201824671/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=coplien+multiparadigm+programming&qid=1606226686&s=books&sr=1-1 https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Paradigm-Design-C-James-Coplien...

Wildgoose 6y ago

Just wanted to add my recommendation for Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming" by Peter van Roy and Seif Haridi. This is an amazingly thorough, comprehensive and erudite work. Highly recommended.

nextos 6y ago

Mozart/Oz is so underrated. It's a shame it never took off. AliceML was also an interesting hybrid of Oz + SML.

mncharity 6y ago
> Mozart/Oz is so underrated. It's a shame it never took off. The documentation was a major barrier. More so than any other language (trying for public adoption) that I can immediately think of. A textbook-expensive dead-tree book as onboarding path. With the usual pattern of commercial thing reducing incentive to create accessible thing, without fully meeting the need for same. And online documentation that was fragmented and poorly integrated. So "looking up" a topic would involve groveling over a pile of documents, and lecture notes and such, searching out pieces of the puzzle, and pulling them together yourself. So much niftiness, so inaccessibly documented. :/ I once massaged together a distributed table of contents[1] (long since link rotted), which might give a feel for it. Part of the problem was M/Oz was at heart a teaching and academic effort - think of early Racket. One of the hardest things about capturing history (and perhaps a fruitful way to teach it?) is the "wait, they wat?!!?". Picking up a language now, with expectations of how language and ecosystem are documented, and HN kibitzing on "the landing page should be improved by ...", reflects a big cultural learning process on how to do this well. Mozart/Oz, didn't. [1] http://www.vendian.org/oz/wiki/index.cgi?VirtualManual http://www.vendian.org/oz/wiki/index.cgi?VirtualManual