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> There is no possible way to maintain a healthy posture without an external display. I know a physical therapist who would strongly disagree with this; in fac

> There is no possible way to maintain a healthy posture without an external display. I know a physical therapist who would strongly disagree with this; in fact he explicitly recommends to use a laptop for ergonomic reasons unless you can achieve a proper, ergonomic setup with an external screen. The reason being that if used properly(laptop far back so you can rest the whole forearms and elbows on the table) the angles and positioning are supposed to be pretty good. I'm not an expert in this area myself, but some of my problems were alleviated by following his advice and he only uses a laptop himself, so I believe him on that one. That said you're right in that this flat design without a foldable screen is not exactly made for long work hours. I'd say for a session on the go with the device sitting on the lap it could be worse, though at least a detachable/external keyboard would help a lot.

dewey 6y ago
> the angles and positioning are supposed to be pretty good This seems hard to imagine, your neck is still going to be strained by looking "down" on the screen all the time. If you have to work with a laptop and don't have access to an external screen at least put it up on a pile of books and use an external keyboard / mouse. That doesn't cost much and improves your posture so much.
- falcolas 6y ago
  Experience and my neck agrees with you. Sitting properly, my neck would has to be at about a 35° - 45° angle to see the screen at all. It's a guaranteed tension headache.
- alpaca128 6y ago
  > This seems hard to imagine It is, but real experience tells me it can work well. As I mentioned, having a proper setup with an external screen(or your equivalent suggestion of propping up the laptop and using external input devices) is better in comparison, but knowing how to properly use a laptop if that's not possible is important as well.
moron4hire 6y ago
Given OSHA's recommendations on setting up a computer workstation, I think perhaps you need a new physical therapist: https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/index.html https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/index....
- alpaca128 6y ago
  As it literally says in that text you linked, not every posture works for everyone. I did not claim that a laptop leads to the best situation for ergonomics, I just wanted to debunk the "there's no way using a laptop could ever be healthy" claim which both a professional I know as well as my own experience don't agree with. It can be healthy, though admittedly most people don't do it right. I'm glad I listened to his advice because it seemed to fix my issues for good. If you found a comfortable setup that's different then that's great as well.
  - eeZah7Ux 6y ago
    > I just wanted to debunk > a professional I know Please provide proper sources, not random hearsay.
  - moron4hire 6y ago
    Your original post wasn't just limited to "in my case". Your original post talked about your PT specifically claiming laptops were better.
- drcode 6y ago
  Clearly we need something like OSHA to enforce minimal workplace safety, but is OSHA meaningful as an authority on general health issues like computer use? A couple of years ago I might have said yes, but after recent events I find it really hard to put much weight on the opinions of these bureaucratic agencies. The truth is, it's really hard to do a double-blinded study for these kinds long-term health concerns.
oftenwrong 6y ago
That quote is specifically in reference to this flat device. I agree that with a laptop you can achieve a relatively ergonomic posture if you set it up the way you describe, which minimises the "hunch" and strain, although you can do much better with some accessories. When I work away from home I use a laptop with a laptop stand ( https://www.therooststand.com/ https://www.therooststand.com/ ) and external HIDs. Of course, any good physical therapist will tell you that no hardware can offset the damage of long-term sedentary work. One might say that more active time is the best ergonomic solution.

dewey 6y ago

> the angles and positioning are supposed to be pretty good This seems hard to imagine, your neck is still going to be strained by looking "down" on the screen all the time. If you have to work with a laptop and don't have access to an external screen at least put it up on a pile of books and use an external keyboard / mouse. That doesn't cost much and improves your posture so much.

falcolas 6y ago
Experience and my neck agrees with you. Sitting properly, my neck would has to be at about a 35° - 45° angle to see the screen at all. It's a guaranteed tension headache.
alpaca128 6y ago
> This seems hard to imagine It is, but real experience tells me it can work well. As I mentioned, having a proper setup with an external screen(or your equivalent suggestion of propping up the laptop and using external input devices) is better in comparison, but knowing how to properly use a laptop if that's not possible is important as well.

moron4hire 6y ago

Given OSHA's recommendations on setting up a computer workstation, I think perhaps you need a new physical therapist: https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/index.html https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/index....

alpaca128 6y ago
As it literally says in that text you linked, not every posture works for everyone. I did not claim that a laptop leads to the best situation for ergonomics, I just wanted to debunk the "there's no way using a laptop could ever be healthy" claim which both a professional I know as well as my own experience don't agree with. It can be healthy, though admittedly most people don't do it right. I'm glad I listened to his advice because it seemed to fix my issues for good. If you found a comfortable setup that's different then that's great as well.
- eeZah7Ux 6y ago
  > I just wanted to debunk > a professional I know Please provide proper sources, not random hearsay.
- moron4hire 6y ago
  Your original post wasn't just limited to "in my case". Your original post talked about your PT specifically claiming laptops were better.
drcode 6y ago
Clearly we need something like OSHA to enforce minimal workplace safety, but is OSHA meaningful as an authority on general health issues like computer use? A couple of years ago I might have said yes, but after recent events I find it really hard to put much weight on the opinions of these bureaucratic agencies. The truth is, it's really hard to do a double-blinded study for these kinds long-term health concerns.

oftenwrong 6y ago

That quote is specifically in reference to this flat device. I agree that with a laptop you can achieve a relatively ergonomic posture if you set it up the way you describe, which minimises the "hunch" and strain, although you can do much better with some accessories. When I work away from home I use a laptop with a laptop stand ( https://www.therooststand.com/ https://www.therooststand.com/ ) and external HIDs. Of course, any good physical therapist will tell you that no hardware can offset the damage of long-term sedentary work. One might say that more active time is the best ergonomic solution.