4 ms·

>What an incomprehensibly huge achievement on both counts! He is an amazing dev, don't get me wrong. BUT he had lots of luck starting from not choosing the nam

by nix23 6y ago

>What an incomprehensibly huge achievement on both counts! He is an amazing dev, don't get me wrong. BUT he had lots of luck starting from not choosing the name Freax, choosing the same license as his compiler (GPL), and a professor that did no understood free-software (Tannenbaum and his minix), the legal battle of the BSD's...and maybe a too expensive and ~slow solaris, and a really good but proprietary VCS (Bitkeeper) as a idea-blueprint for git.

sammorrowdrums 6y ago
True, although when you compare for example to people behind large brands with frequently huge acclaim, and then glimpse inside their (frequently) empty shell that is a marketing PR machine where all the real innovation, manufacturer and logistics is all bought, I think it's ok to give acclaim to somebody lucky, with prior art and inspiration from people who's shoulders they stand on, simply for the outcome that emerged.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
quesera 6y ago
You're not wrong. But, tens of thousands of other people had all of those same lucky things. Linus has claimed to have been unaware of the existence of BSD, so perhaps he had a bit of fortunate ignorance as well. (FWIW, neither Linux nor git are my preferred options, but I still think Linus has spawned great things. :)
- nix23 6y ago
  > You're not wrong. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8641073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8641073 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.os.minix/dlNtH7RRrGA/SwRavCzVE7gJ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.os.minix/dlNtH7RR... >But, tens of thousands of other people had all of those same lucky things. Yes AND? >but I still think Linus has spawned great things. I did not say anything else.
  - quesera 6y ago
    What we call "luck" is very unevenly distributed in the world. Linus is also lucky that he had decent nutrition in his childhood, and that Finland was not at war with Russia during his university years. He had the luck to be born to parents that were able to prioritize education over subsistence. So yes, he was lucky. But in your previous comment, you also call Linus's choices "luck". That doesn't read fairly to me. He had the luck to make good choices? Maybe in retrospect, but you must acknowledge that there's much more than luck involved. Of the tens of thousands of people with enough "luck" to arrive at roughly the same place in 1991 -- by which I mean smart, well-fed, decent academic/life schedule with adequate free time, few or manageable commitments like spouses/dependent children or parents, broad and deep exposure to Unix, access to USENET and the Internet -- Linus remains exceptional. My closing parenthetical was not a counterpoint to your message. It was to frame my perspective: I don't worship, but I do respect.
    - nix23 6y ago
      >Of the tens of thousands of people with enough "luck" to arrive at roughly the same place in 1991 There where not "tens of thousands" peoples who made a ~unix kernel licensed with the GPL. >Linus is also lucky that he had decent nutrition in his childhood Yeah let's stop here it getting stupid.
      - quesera 6y ago
        Perhaps I'm not communicating well today. I apologize if so. Among the tens of thousands who were in the right place, single-digit dozens made the attempt, and only Linus succeeded in such a visible way. If you want to argue that he was merely the lucky one among dozens, then you still have a lot of extraordinary evidence to present, but you might have an interesting story to tell. Your original comment reads like a dismissal because Linus drew inspiration from the world he lived in, and was just "lucky". The point is that he did the work, he attracted the community, he managed the project. None of that was luck. And none of that is highly correlated with being an "amazing dev". Of course he stood on the shoulders of giants. Of course he learned from (and drew from) the environment around him. Of course Linux would be a forgotten academic project without the GNU userland (and license, maybe). Etc etc. We all lived in that soup. Linus did the hard work and made something from it. I thought your comment was highly uncharitable in its disregard for all of things that made Linux successful. > Yeah let's stop here it getting stupid. On this, we can agree.

by nix23 6y ago

sammorrowdrums 6y ago

True, although when you compare for example to people behind large brands with frequently huge acclaim, and then glimpse inside their (frequently) empty shell that is a marketing PR machine where all the real innovation, manufacturer and logistics is all bought, I think it's ok to give acclaim to somebody lucky, with prior art and inspiration from people who's shoulders they stand on, simply for the outcome that emerged.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

quesera 6y ago

You're not wrong. But, tens of thousands of other people had all of those same lucky things. Linus has claimed to have been unaware of the existence of BSD, so perhaps he had a bit of fortunate ignorance as well. (FWIW, neither Linux nor git are my preferred options, but I still think Linus has spawned great things. :)

nix23 6y ago
> You're not wrong. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8641073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8641073 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.os.minix/dlNtH7RRrGA/SwRavCzVE7gJ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.os.minix/dlNtH7RR... >But, tens of thousands of other people had all of those same lucky things. Yes AND? >but I still think Linus has spawned great things. I did not say anything else.
- quesera 6y ago
  What we call "luck" is very unevenly distributed in the world. Linus is also lucky that he had decent nutrition in his childhood, and that Finland was not at war with Russia during his university years. He had the luck to be born to parents that were able to prioritize education over subsistence. So yes, he was lucky. But in your previous comment, you also call Linus's choices "luck". That doesn't read fairly to me. He had the luck to make good choices? Maybe in retrospect, but you must acknowledge that there's much more than luck involved. Of the tens of thousands of people with enough "luck" to arrive at roughly the same place in 1991 -- by which I mean smart, well-fed, decent academic/life schedule with adequate free time, few or manageable commitments like spouses/dependent children or parents, broad and deep exposure to Unix, access to USENET and the Internet -- Linus remains exceptional. My closing parenthetical was not a counterpoint to your message. It was to frame my perspective: I don't worship, but I do respect.
  - nix23 6y ago
    >Of the tens of thousands of people with enough "luck" to arrive at roughly the same place in 1991 There where not "tens of thousands" peoples who made a ~unix kernel licensed with the GPL. >Linus is also lucky that he had decent nutrition in his childhood Yeah let's stop here it getting stupid.
    - quesera 6y ago
      Perhaps I'm not communicating well today. I apologize if so. Among the tens of thousands who were in the right place, single-digit dozens made the attempt, and only Linus succeeded in such a visible way. If you want to argue that he was merely the lucky one among dozens, then you still have a lot of extraordinary evidence to present, but you might have an interesting story to tell. Your original comment reads like a dismissal because Linus drew inspiration from the world he lived in, and was just "lucky". The point is that he did the work, he attracted the community, he managed the project. None of that was luck. And none of that is highly correlated with being an "amazing dev". Of course he stood on the shoulders of giants. Of course he learned from (and drew from) the environment around him. Of course Linux would be a forgotten academic project without the GNU userland (and license, maybe). Etc etc. We all lived in that soup. Linus did the hard work and made something from it. I thought your comment was highly uncharitable in its disregard for all of things that made Linux successful. > Yeah let's stop here it getting stupid. On this, we can agree.