6 ms·

Hard disagree. “Free speech” does not include hate speech.

eznzt 6y ago
It does.
xupybd 6y ago
Those who tend to advocate for Free Speech have a very different concept of what free speech encompasses compared to those who advocate for hate speech based restrictions on speech. While there are sound arguments in both camps much of the discussion online is cross talk with each side misunderstanding the other.
emteycz 6y ago
It does, otherwise the laws against hate speech wouldn't be 'limitations of free speech'.
- Inityx 6y ago
  Pretty big leap you just made, to come in with the assumption that they are
hkon 6y ago
So to censor your opinion, I just have to justify it as hate speech. A slippery slope if I ever saw one.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
forest_dweller 6y ago
Yes it does. In the US free-speech does include hate speech. Even in countries where there is hate speech, what and what doesn't constitute it is normally broad, subjective and is frequently misused by state to prosecute people that have no ill intent. The most egregious example is the Chelseas Rusell case in the UK: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-who-posted-rap-lyrics-14543694 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-wh... Also not only that but it doesn't work. If you stop people from saying certain words they just end up making new ones to get around your censorship. It is already happening online, people will make up new words to get around any speech censorship e.g. "jogger" means black criminal and I will leave it up to you to work out what that is being used in place of. Also banning certain words doesn't take into account regional dialect e.g. Faggot is a regional dish in England. They recently banned google ads for a restaurant that sold "Fanny's Faggots". https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/cafe-advert-fannys-faggots-banned-19911763 https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/cafe-advert-fannys-faggots-... Or this curious case that I just found while looking for the previous one: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7911927/Meat-lover-banned-Facebook-hate-speech-praising-butchers-faggots.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7911927/Meat-lover-... Hate speech legislation doesn't work and just causes people to start resenting law enforcement and have less respect generally for the laws of the land.
- EL_Loco 6y ago
  Off topic, but is 'fag' still used for cigarettes in England?
  - forest_dweller 6y ago
    Yes
  - MonsterBurger 6y ago
    I have noticed the use of faggot all but disappear, it used to be quite mainstream. Fag is still used for cigarettes.
- Hokusai 6y ago
  If the USA wants to support local racist terrorist groups, that is your problem. But exporting that terrorist thread to the European Union should ban Facebook in Europe. USA here, USA there. There are more countries in the world, Facebook should take that into account or be banned.
  - forest_dweller 6y ago
    > If the USA wants to support local racist terrorist groups, that is your problem. I don't think the USA supports that at all. They don't prosecute speech which was specifically what I was responding to. Not prosecuting speech is not the same as supporting said speech. Also I am not from the US. I am from the UK. > But exporting that terrorist thread to the European Union should ban Facebook in Europe. You premise is faulty. The purpose of facebook is not to spread any sort of terrorism. It is a social network and communication tool. This would be like blaming the phone company for mafia organising a hit over a phone call. In this specific example it does seem they were calling to violence which is not legal speech even in the US (IANAL though). So they should be removed. > USA here, USA there. There are more countries in the world, Facebook should take that into account or be banned. I agree I am in the UK and I don't like silicon valley trying to impose their set of values on the rest of the world either. As for banning whole sites who purpose is not anything nefarious because some people do illegal acts on said platform is ridiculous.
dunefox 6y ago
Except it does - whatever 'hate speech' is supposed to be.
EL_Loco 6y ago
Yes it does. What you can have, and usually do, is free speech with limitations, and this can vary greatly. What you have in the US is limitations, for example, regarding content that includes minors. In my country, racist speech falls under anti-racism laws, so our free speech has even more limitations, or, to put it another way, our speech is 'less' free.

It does.

Those who tend to advocate for Free Speech have a very different concept of what free speech encompasses compared to those who advocate for hate speech based restrictions on speech. While there are sound arguments in both camps much of the discussion online is cross talk with each side misunderstanding the other.

emteycz 6y ago

It does, otherwise the laws against hate speech wouldn't be 'limitations of free speech'.

Inityx 6y ago
Pretty big leap you just made, to come in with the assumption that they are

hkon 6y ago

So to censor your opinion, I just have to justify it as hate speech. A slippery slope if I ever saw one.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

forest_dweller 6y ago

Yes it does. In the US free-speech does include hate speech. Even in countries where there is hate speech, what and what doesn't constitute it is normally broad, subjective and is frequently misused by state to prosecute people that have no ill intent. The most egregious example is the Chelseas Rusell case in the UK: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-who-posted-rap-lyrics-14543694 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-wh... Also not only that but it doesn't work. If you stop people from saying certain words they just end up making new ones to get around your censorship. It is already happening online, people will make up new words to get around any speech censorship e.g. "jogger" means black criminal and I will leave it up to you to work out what that is being used in place of. Also banning certain words doesn't take into account regional dialect e.g. Faggot is a regional dish in England. They recently banned google ads for a restaurant that sold "Fanny's Faggots". https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/cafe-advert-fannys-faggots-banned-19911763 https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/cafe-advert-fannys-faggots-... Or this curious case that I just found while looking for the previous one: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7911927/Meat-lover-banned-Facebook-hate-speech-praising-butchers-faggots.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7911927/Meat-lover-... Hate speech legislation doesn't work and just causes people to start resenting law enforcement and have less respect generally for the laws of the land.

EL_Loco 6y ago
Off topic, but is 'fag' still used for cigarettes in England?
- forest_dweller 6y ago
  Yes
- MonsterBurger 6y ago
  I have noticed the use of faggot all but disappear, it used to be quite mainstream. Fag is still used for cigarettes.
Hokusai 6y ago
If the USA wants to support local racist terrorist groups, that is your problem. But exporting that terrorist thread to the European Union should ban Facebook in Europe. USA here, USA there. There are more countries in the world, Facebook should take that into account or be banned.
- forest_dweller 6y ago
  > If the USA wants to support local racist terrorist groups, that is your problem. I don't think the USA supports that at all. They don't prosecute speech which was specifically what I was responding to. Not prosecuting speech is not the same as supporting said speech. Also I am not from the US. I am from the UK. > But exporting that terrorist thread to the European Union should ban Facebook in Europe. You premise is faulty. The purpose of facebook is not to spread any sort of terrorism. It is a social network and communication tool. This would be like blaming the phone company for mafia organising a hit over a phone call. In this specific example it does seem they were calling to violence which is not legal speech even in the US (IANAL though). So they should be removed. > USA here, USA there. There are more countries in the world, Facebook should take that into account or be banned. I agree I am in the UK and I don't like silicon valley trying to impose their set of values on the rest of the world either. As for banning whole sites who purpose is not anything nefarious because some people do illegal acts on said platform is ridiculous.

dunefox 6y ago

Except it does - whatever 'hate speech' is supposed to be.

EL_Loco 6y ago

Yes it does. What you can have, and usually do, is free speech with limitations, and this can vary greatly. What you have in the US is limitations, for example, regarding content that includes minors. In my country, racist speech falls under anti-racism laws, so our free speech has even more limitations, or, to put it another way, our speech is 'less' free.