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I'm not suggesting the bird will think in terms of an exchange rate, I'm suggesting they may experiment with random behaviors (like tearing things in half) and

I'm not suggesting the bird will think in terms of an exchange rate, I'm suggesting they may experiment with random behaviors (like tearing things in half) and it's important that none of those behaviors are re-inforced by leading to more food output. And I do not think it's at all unreasonable to suspect that the bird learns that putting a piece of trash in a slot yields 1 foot pellet, so if they tear the trash in two they can get 2 pellets. A crow at the beginning of this talk figured out how to bend a metal wire to use as a tool when a straight wire wouldn't work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fiAoqwsc9g&t=17s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fiAoqwsc9g&t=17s And the crow in this video figures out how to drink water at the bottom of a bottle by displacing it with pebbles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVSr22kqSOs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVSr22kqSOs

yreg 6y ago
Ad the water displacement video: It seems to me that the crow would be able to drink the water just fine without throwing the pebble in? Perhaps a cargo cult?
fakedang 6y ago
Incidentally one of the next recommended videos after was of my fiancée's cousin who's into studying corvids, and who has been most of my point of reference :). You assume that to corvids, tearing the trash into two is an easier task to experiment with. It's not. Corvids, just like smarter humans, look for the easiest way to do something. Like another one of the children comments to mine says, they would rather find another way to "reuse" the trash, perhaps by finding some opening to the trash storage, or finding a nearby huge stash of trash which was not the objective, such as a landfill, or experimenting with other materials to see if they work (the reason why mechanical contraptions would barely work with magpies, etc. but would work with most other birds).
- jessriedel 6y ago
  You're confidently constructing a very complicated theory of crow psychology here with zero reference to sources except your conversations with family members.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    If you're interested, you can always refer to the research from the Ornithology Institute of Oxford University, since that's where they work. Won't give out anymore info, or I'd be doxxing myself.

yreg 6y ago

Ad the water displacement video: It seems to me that the crow would be able to drink the water just fine without throwing the pebble in? Perhaps a cargo cult?

fakedang 6y ago

Incidentally one of the next recommended videos after was of my fiancée's cousin who's into studying corvids, and who has been most of my point of reference :). You assume that to corvids, tearing the trash into two is an easier task to experiment with. It's not. Corvids, just like smarter humans, look for the easiest way to do something. Like another one of the children comments to mine says, they would rather find another way to "reuse" the trash, perhaps by finding some opening to the trash storage, or finding a nearby huge stash of trash which was not the objective, such as a landfill, or experimenting with other materials to see if they work (the reason why mechanical contraptions would barely work with magpies, etc. but would work with most other birds).

jessriedel 6y ago
You're confidently constructing a very complicated theory of crow psychology here with zero reference to sources except your conversations with family members.
- fakedang 6y ago
  If you're interested, you can always refer to the research from the Ornithology Institute of Oxford University, since that's where they work. Won't give out anymore info, or I'd be doxxing myself.