5 ms·

> nothing is apolitical If nothing was apolitical then we wouldn't have a word for it.

by winston_smith 6y ago

walleeee 6y ago
If unicorns weren't real we wouldn't have a word for them.
- winston_smith 6y ago
  And yet we do because it's a real and useful concept, just like "apolitical".
  - walleeee 6y ago
    Sure, I don't disagree.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > And yet we do because it's a real and useful concept, just like "apolitical". Both unicorns and apolitical actions are unreal fantasies. The only things that seem apolitical are the things that are so widely agreed on that their true political nature is hard to discern. Once you have disagreement, especially widespread disagreement, the political nature becomes clear. For instance, take the idea of marriage only being between a man and a woman and go back 100 years. Back then, it would have gone without saying, but now it's "political" because many people have other ideas. Nothing changed, except the level of consensus.
    - winston_smith 6y ago
      Nonsense, most things are apolitical. The people who deny that are trying to produce political action on their pet issues and think we can be coerced into supporting it if they claim, as George W. Bush did, that "you are either with us, or you are with the terrorists." It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.
    - etangent 6y ago
      > The only things that seem apolitical are the things that are so widely agreed on that their true political nature is hard to discern The disagreement is what makes things political. There isn't an inherent "political" quality sitting in things. Existentialist's motto was: life is meaningless until you give it meaning. By analogy, most things in the world are apolitical until quarrelsome people with pet issues show up and make them political.
      - ardy42 6y ago
        > The disagreement is what makes things political. There isn't an inherent "political" quality sitting in things. That's true in a sense (e.g. plate tectonics is not political), but it's false you start dealing with things that intersect with human society. For instance: anything to do with power over others, the makeup of society, or the kind of actions people are allowed, encouraged, or forbidden to do is inherently political. > By analogy, most things in the world are apolitical until quarrelsome people with pet issues show up and make them political. Not really, and that's just a pretty typical (political!) ad hominem argument made by people who want to maintain the status quo, whatever that is. Stated another way, you're saying the people who want change are troublemakers who should know their place.
        etangent 6y ago
        > Stated another way, you're saying the people who want change are troublemakers who should know their place. First, that's only the case if you assume that by "political" I mean bad. But "political" isn't necessarily bad. Secondly, and more importantly, to make something political is often to imagine some unjust status quo to be overturned. But imagination has power of reifying fantasies to actual events. In other words, to make something political is often to exercise power at the expense of others and to justify it by portraying your action as serving to overturn a status quo. Even status quo can use this to further their power! Freedom isn't always the net outcome of politics.
        ardy42 6y ago
        >>> By analogy, most things in the world are apolitical until quarrelsome people with pet issues show up and make them political. >> Stated another way, you're saying the people who want change are troublemakers who should know their place. > First, that's only the case if you assume that by "political" I mean bad. But "political" isn't necessarily bad. No, I assume that by "quarrelsome people with pet issues" you mean bad. I thought that was pretty obvious. > In other words, to make something political is often to exercise power at the expense of others and to justify it by portraying your action as serving to overturn a status quo. This is "speech is violence" level nonsense. If someone challenges a status quo that you like ("makes something political" in your parlance), then actually defend that status quo. Don't gripe about how those quarrelsome people ruined your nice "apolitical day."
Consultant32452 6y ago
The fundamentalist faith that is evangelical progressivism allows nothing and no one to fall outside its purview. Every aspect of everyone's life must submit to its edicts.

> nothing is apolitical If nothing was apolitical then we wouldn't have a word for it.

walleeee 6y ago

If unicorns weren't real we wouldn't have a word for them.

winston_smith 6y ago
And yet we do because it's a real and useful concept, just like "apolitical".
- walleeee 6y ago
  Sure, I don't disagree.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > And yet we do because it's a real and useful concept, just like "apolitical". Both unicorns and apolitical actions are unreal fantasies. The only things that seem apolitical are the things that are so widely agreed on that their true political nature is hard to discern. Once you have disagreement, especially widespread disagreement, the political nature becomes clear. For instance, take the idea of marriage only being between a man and a woman and go back 100 years. Back then, it would have gone without saying, but now it's "political" because many people have other ideas. Nothing changed, except the level of consensus.
  - winston_smith 6y ago
    Nonsense, most things are apolitical. The people who deny that are trying to produce political action on their pet issues and think we can be coerced into supporting it if they claim, as George W. Bush did, that "you are either with us, or you are with the terrorists." It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.
  - etangent 6y ago
    > The only things that seem apolitical are the things that are so widely agreed on that their true political nature is hard to discern The disagreement is what makes things political. There isn't an inherent "political" quality sitting in things. Existentialist's motto was: life is meaningless until you give it meaning. By analogy, most things in the world are apolitical until quarrelsome people with pet issues show up and make them political.
    - ardy42 6y ago
      > The disagreement is what makes things political. There isn't an inherent "political" quality sitting in things. That's true in a sense (e.g. plate tectonics is not political), but it's false you start dealing with things that intersect with human society. For instance: anything to do with power over others, the makeup of society, or the kind of actions people are allowed, encouraged, or forbidden to do is inherently political. > By analogy, most things in the world are apolitical until quarrelsome people with pet issues show up and make them political. Not really, and that's just a pretty typical (political!) ad hominem argument made by people who want to maintain the status quo, whatever that is. Stated another way, you're saying the people who want change are troublemakers who should know their place.
      - etangent 6y ago
        > Stated another way, you're saying the people who want change are troublemakers who should know their place. First, that's only the case if you assume that by "political" I mean bad. But "political" isn't necessarily bad. Secondly, and more importantly, to make something political is often to imagine some unjust status quo to be overturned. But imagination has power of reifying fantasies to actual events. In other words, to make something political is often to exercise power at the expense of others and to justify it by portraying your action as serving to overturn a status quo. Even status quo can use this to further their power! Freedom isn't always the net outcome of politics.
        ardy42 6y ago
        >>> By analogy, most things in the world are apolitical until quarrelsome people with pet issues show up and make them political. >> Stated another way, you're saying the people who want change are troublemakers who should know their place. > First, that's only the case if you assume that by "political" I mean bad. But "political" isn't necessarily bad. No, I assume that by "quarrelsome people with pet issues" you mean bad. I thought that was pretty obvious. > In other words, to make something political is often to exercise power at the expense of others and to justify it by portraying your action as serving to overturn a status quo. This is "speech is violence" level nonsense. If someone challenges a status quo that you like ("makes something political" in your parlance), then actually defend that status quo. Don't gripe about how those quarrelsome people ruined your nice "apolitical day."

Consultant32452 6y ago

The fundamentalist faith that is evangelical progressivism allows nothing and no one to fall outside its purview. Every aspect of everyone's life must submit to its edicts.