Yup. Or actually acknowledging the software engineers or engineers implementing your product might be able to make you aware of some design challenges, engineer

Yup. Or actually acknowledging the software engineers or engineers implementing your product might be able to make you aware of some design challenges, engineering tradeoffs that will impact product or offer a more innovative solution if the PM is willing to listen. This usually requires believing the engineers have any level of intelligence besides being a code monkey and can really level with you on system design at is related to the overall outcome of a product or feature. Multiple PMs I have worked under have simply demanded an outstanding feature of product without: a) asking if it's ever been done before anywhere including say a team of 1000 google engineers much less your 11 person startup. B) input or a guesstimate of an engineers timeline on how long this would take before respectfully working towards a compromise to meet a company goal For both points having any level of reality internalized about if what they are asking is realistic. In these cases the engineers not only get burnt out but produce the feature request knowing without additional consideration whether it be addressing tech debt supporting the feature which may finally catastrophically fail under that new load or what have you, and then getting stuck putting out fires to maintain the system only to have the PM come in and finally say ok how are we going to solve this problem but under an even more agressive timeline because it's failing in production because they insisted on pushing it even though they are the only ones who were convinced it was ready. The only thing worse than pulling all nighters for a PM who thinks engineers just need to be told what to do and given a deadline and don't have any valuable seat at the table when it comes to implementing the design and a desire to help the PM be successful by highlighting challenges that could put the goal at risk to find a cool way to overcome those, is being told to shove out a crappy solution you're not proud of in a fraction of the time and then be yelled at and asked to pull more all nighters fixing it slowly and painfully the right way, with the pressure of failing customers in real time or humiliating the company by rolling back a feature, all the while knowing the root cause of the problem: The PM, is not being solved. I have crazy one liners I've been given from PMs including but not limited to: "don't talk during meetings. You don't know what you're talking about and this meeting will move along alot faster if I'm the only one speaking." In 2018 I had a PM chastise engineers on a company public slack channel that on Christmas Eve that he was dissapointed to see people actually using their vacation instead of a chance to get ahead. I've seen that same guy ask a 55yr old woman going through cancer chemotherapy to pull an all nighter on a plane during the weekend for a company trip to meet no critical deadline whatsoever externally or internally except to meet his own he had set that day and not think twice about it. I now work for a much more successful company and have been promoted beyond a senior engineer level and don't have to deal with PMs directly as such anymore but wow, it's amazing how abusive people can be in this position. On the contrary, a really good PM can take a company to orders of magnitudes of success beyond what was previously imagined. Tldr: mutual respect on a personal and technical and product level between PM and Engineers.