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> The history of the church in the middle ages provides an interesting comparison. Instead of technocratic experts, there were priests who claimed a monopoly on
by xaedes 6y ago
> The history of the church in the middle ages provides an interesting comparison. Instead of technocratic experts, there were priests who claimed a monopoly on truthiness. Members of the laity or even academics like Galileo were declared heretics when they diverged from official truths.
Ah this trope again. I am just gonna post this for a more complete picture:
http://blogs.nature.com/soapboxscience/2011/05/18/science-owes-much-to-both-christianity-and-the-middle-ages http://blogs.nature.com/soapboxscience/2011/05/18/science-ow...
> Admittedly, Galileo was put on trial for claiming it is a fact that the Earth goes around the sun, rather than just a hypothesis as the Catholic Church demanded. Still, historians have found that even his trial was as much a case of papal egotism as scientific conservatism. It hardly deserves to overshadow all the support that the Church has given to scientific investigation over the centuries.
> That support took several forms. One was simply financial. Until the French Revolution, the Catholic Church was the leading sponsor of scientific research. Starting in the Middle Ages, it paid for priests, monks and friars to study at the universities. The church even insisted that science and mathematics should be a compulsory part of the syllabus. And after some debate, it accepted that Greek and Arabic natural philosophy were essential tools for defending the faith. By the seventeenth century, the Jesuit order had become the leading scientific organisation in Europe, publishing thousands of papers and spreading new discoveries around the world. The cathedrals themselves were designed to double up as astronomical observatories to allow ever more accurate determination of the calendar. And of course, modern genetics was founded by a future abbot growing peas in the monastic garden.
- ppf 6y agoAre we now denying the centuries of state-sponsored religious oppression that thrived in Europe? Assuming you are in the US, you might want to remember why the first settlers attempted to start a new life. As someone whose national history is full of religious oppression, persecution, and acts of horror perpetrated in the name of god, you are welcome to walk this path for yourself, but I will not be following you.
- aww_dang 6y agoI'm not sure if he is specifically denying these issues. It is possible to read his comment as defending the church's involvement in research. To clarify my own comment, I don't deny the church's involvement in the sciences. The assumption that I am promoting some kind of "trope" seems like a misreading of my own comment. Just part of commenting, these things can happen. Copernicus (who Galileo cited) was a member of the clergy. However, he was reluctant to share his work on the heliocentric model for political reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#:~:text=to%20risk%20the%20scorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#:~:text=to...
- awak3ning 6y agoI think that the point being made is not that religion has facilitated negative outcomes, but that the trope of "church impede scientific process. church absolute bad" is an example of a biased retrospective view adopted as a common myth in the modern, western worldview. It is important for societies to hold myths as part of their common culture for purposes of cohesion, but we must also acknowledge that reality is more complex and these myths are often ahistorical.