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It’s hard for programmers to understand signatures and law in general, because it is somewhat similar to programming but with very different rules. The signatu

by woah 6y ago

It’s hard for programmers to understand signatures and law in general, because it is somewhat similar to programming but with very different rules. The signature is just evidence of an agreement between you and the other party. It is not the only thing that matters. For example, if someone forged your signature on some paper transfer documents, would they then be able to move into your house? No. In your scenario, it sounds like you’re worried about the third party signature service colluding with the other party and putting some terms in the contract that you didn’t agree to, while displaying the original contract to you when you sign? If this is a genuine worry, just screenshot the document as you sign it. If the other party then tries to enforce these fraudulent terms, you can use the screenshots as evidence of the fraud. There may then be a criminal investigation, and everyone involved in the fraud may go to jail.

buckminster 6y ago
I understand perfectly well that if it goes wrong I will, most likely, be able to unpick the damage. But I also understand that this can take years and lots of money. Especially if the signature service is in a different country. So-called identity theft is a real problem. My particular concern is that I believe I'm entering into a tenancy but then discover, due to some bug in the software, that the landlord never actually entered the agreement. At this point the landlord can legally evict me if, say, he gets a better offer. What can I do about this? Edit to explain a detail of English law: this is a lease renewal. It isn't necessary for my continued occupation, but without it I have no security of tenure.
- woah 6y ago
  Nobody is going to risk jail time to just get a slightly better rent on an apartment or something. There are much better ways to make money if you’re willing to go to jail for fraud. The problem you are concerned about is not a problem.
- matthewheath 6y ago
  The court will take into account more than just the lack of the landlord's signature on an electronic document. They will look at the intention between you two, as well as any correspondence between you and the landlord's agents. A contract does not have to be written to exist, although it certainly helps. An oral agreement that you'll continue in the lease and will treat the document as a formality would suffice. There will be evidence you will be able to adduce in your favour beyond this signature service. Furthermore, there are strict rules around eviction; the landlord can't immediately evict even when you're not on an AST.

by woah 6y ago

buckminster 6y ago

I understand perfectly well that if it goes wrong I will, most likely, be able to unpick the damage. But I also understand that this can take years and lots of money. Especially if the signature service is in a different country. So-called identity theft is a real problem. My particular concern is that I believe I'm entering into a tenancy but then discover, due to some bug in the software, that the landlord never actually entered the agreement. At this point the landlord can legally evict me if, say, he gets a better offer. What can I do about this? Edit to explain a detail of English law: this is a lease renewal. It isn't necessary for my continued occupation, but without it I have no security of tenure.

woah 6y ago
Nobody is going to risk jail time to just get a slightly better rent on an apartment or something. There are much better ways to make money if you’re willing to go to jail for fraud. The problem you are concerned about is not a problem.
matthewheath 6y ago
The court will take into account more than just the lack of the landlord's signature on an electronic document. They will look at the intention between you two, as well as any correspondence between you and the landlord's agents. A contract does not have to be written to exist, although it certainly helps. An oral agreement that you'll continue in the lease and will treat the document as a formality would suffice. There will be evidence you will be able to adduce in your favour beyond this signature service. Furthermore, there are strict rules around eviction; the landlord can't immediately evict even when you're not on an AST.