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Before the Mayflower
- sorokod 6y agoApparently Separatists == Dissenters, there was a bunch of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Dissenters#Brownists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Dissenters#Brownists
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoOne man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
- creddit 6y agoI feel like they really gloss over the fact that this crew seized a French man-of-war: > At that moment they had the extraordinary luck – or providence, as the Separatists saw it – to spot the Hopewell passing on its return journey, and they flagged it down. Once reunited, they negotiated the return of some of their lost possessions and seized a French man-of-war and so were at least able to return home with as many ships as they started with. Really would like to know more. Has anyone found the ship's log from the captain of the Hopewell?
- theklub 6y agoYes it’s mentioned in the article that it was published at some point.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago“History is written by the victors” The Spanish, French, and Dutch had many more successful and earlier settlements (some non-permanent) than the English. It is only because the English prevailed that we hear more about the pilgrims and Jamestown.
- ZanyProgrammer 6y agoReally? By New Years Day 1600, other than possible Roanoke colonists scattered throughout the winds, how many European settlements existed within the future borders of the United States or Canada? They're all sorta contemporaneous, and it was the bad luck of the French to colonize a place that was cold and was always going to be much more underpopulated than Britain's Atlantic colonies. I would also say the legacy of the Spanish in the New World is...sorta hard to miss as well.
- gumby 6y agoEver been to Manhattan Island? Also French use and control of the maritime regions of what is now Canada began about a century before the Mayflower, resulting in some small permanent colonies by that time. France still has territory off Newfoundland.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y agoPuerto Rico - 1513 New France - 1534 Little Venice - 1528 Santa Fe - 1610 New Netherlands - 1614 New Sweden - 1638 Norse - 1001 (New Foundland, possibly Maine) Brazil - sometime in the early 1500s (not explorers but settlements) São Tomé - 1493 Príncipe - 1500 Guanare - 1591 Nova Scotia (Scottish not French) - 1629 St. Augustine (now Florida) - 1565 Parris (South Carolina) - 1562 Sapelo Island (Georgia) - 1526 Various missions and presidios in California - 1519 Various missionary settlements in Georgia, late 1500s and early 1600s --- I mean, I could go on... These are some of the ones that we know about. Surely there are others that did not survive historical record. > They're all sorta contemporaneous I don't consider a 100+ year difference between 1620 and some of the settlements I listed to be contemporaneous. --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Puerto_Rico#Spanish_rule_(1493%E2%80%931898) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Puerto_Rico#Spanish... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein-Venedig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein-Venedig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Netherland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Netherland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_colonization_of_North_America#Vinland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_colonization_of_North_Am... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Brazil#Arrival_and_early_exploitation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Brazil#Arrival_and_ea... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Tom%C3%A9_and_Pr%C3%ADncipe#Arrival_of_Europeans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Tom%C3%A9_and_Pr%C3%A... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_colonization_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_colonization_of_the_A... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Augustine,_Florida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Augustine,_Florida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe,_New_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe,_New_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parris_Island,_South_Carolina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parris_Island,_South_Carolina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapelo_Island#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapelo_Island#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_California_before_1900#First_Spanish_colonies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_California_before_1... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_missions_in_Georgia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_missions_in_Georgia
- duxup 6y agoIt also helps if you write it too. The story of Plymouth Colony was well documented.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y agoYeah that is exactly my point: “ History is written by the victors” as I wrote top of thread.
- dmckeon 6y agoThe English prevailed then, but the New Englanders also prevailed in the wake of the American Civil War, when the public school education model was introduced by people from Massachusetts, and textbooks tended to reflect a Northern view of American history, presenting an unbroken sequence from the Mayflower to the Emancipation Proclamation, eliding many things that did not fit their preferred narrative, such as Jamestown in Virginia, France in Quebec and the Maritimes, the Dutch in New York, Catholics in Maryland, St. Augustine, anything to do with New Spain, etc.
- rgblambda 6y agoI think there's two reasons we hear more about the English settlements. First is the media we have access to being restricted by language. Second is U.S media being in such a dominant position. I think we know more about the American Revolution and Civil War than our own countries major events.
- duxup 6y agoThe experience of early colonists always interest me. There isn't a modern equivalent of traveling months away from home to a new land with local natives and trying to live off a strange land with some serious life or death risks.
- bigjump 6y agoI guess the closest thing will be Mars colonisation less the natives (hopefully).
- wombatmobile 6y ago> There isn't a modern equivalent of traveling months away from home to a new land with local natives and trying to live off a strange land with some serious life or death risks. Sure there is. Just get a good job and save some money for 5 or 10 years. Buy yourself a boat - the biggest one you can afford - a trailer, and some provisions. Drive to the edge of your continent and point the boat out to sea. Keep going until you see land. If you make it to shore without being dashed upon the rocks, your adventure begins.
- phist_mcgee 6y agoI'd play that game.
- splitbrainhack 6y agoyou'd love the book Conquerors by Roger Crowley
- duxup 6y agoThank you.
- coding_unit_1 6y agoI think a large number of refugees from places like Syria and Afghanistan would disagree there.
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- gumby 6y ago> They believed church should be a voluntary community rather than a compulsory state religion. For their refusal to submit to the Church of England they had faced raids, prison, exile and death for the previous 60 years. Let us not forget that less than 30 years later the Puritans had inverted that, taking over control of the British Isles.
- LiquidSky 6y agoBecause nobody actually believes that. People only speak the language of mercy and tolerance when they're on their knees. When it's them in charge, they inevitably switch to the language of power and dominance.
- Digory 6y agoThe Separatists (Pilgrims) were close on many things to the Puritans, but should be classified separately from "Puritans." The Puritans believed in a unified government and church, which the Brownists very much rejected. Ultimately, the Mathers arranged to have the Puritans take over the Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay colonies after the Glorious Revolution.
- khrbrt 6y agoThese recent articles around the Thanksgiving holiday are making me realize just how little I know about the early colonial period of the Americas. Are there any books on the period yall would recommend?
- NateEag 6y agoIf you want to know about the Pilgrims specifically, William Bradford's firsthand account is the gold standard: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Plymouth_Plantation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Plymouth_Plantation
- SiVal 6y agoI definitely agree, but before reading Bradford, I strongly suggest watching this: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/pilgrims/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/pilgrims/ I seems to be available free online at the moment. You can also pay to watch on some services. You hear Bradford's actual words spoken by a fine actor in the context of the events he was describing. (They really are his words, not modernized, so some viewers might want to turn on closed captioning.) It's not perfect, but it's the best introduction I know to set the stage for reading Bradford's story of Plymouth. I also suggest establishing a broader foundation in the early colonies with something like the Teaching Company's lectures on America before 1776, available in audio form from Audible.com, which allows one to establish a historical foundation while doing mind-numbing chores like doing the dishes or cleaning the garage.
- nudpiedo 6y agoMaybe you should read the The Conquest of Florida by Hernando de Soto (1541) you can find his actual diary notes and letters in spanish or some book adaptation in english as the one from Theodore Irving. For the spanish settling in america was mostly setting ties and allies with native populations, often as exchange of technology or accepting to fight against a local historical enemy from the communities. You might also find interesting the biography of Don Juan de Onate, also named "the last Conquistador" who dominated the whole south of nowadays USA and built communities, ended up civilizating the zone, etc.
- nudpiedo 6y ago> The first pilgrim settlers to America [...] Correction: the first non failed british intent to colonize america A Century before Spanish civilization already was succesfully stablished there. The were already skilled on how to build empires, settlements and communicate with very different cultures and create laws for heterogenous populations, since they had to reconquer their own country after 9 centuries of constant struggle against arabs invasions.
- readarticle 6y agoThat’s a misreading, not a correction. There weren’t really any Spanish pilgrim settlers—a very specific type of colonizer—just conquistadors, and a bog standard extractive colonial empire.
- nudpiedo 6y agoSorry but you are mentioning a common historical missconception perpetuated in history because of competition, war and propaganda between the Spanish Empire and England (the sort of conflict and propaganda also evolved in the time, it is a complex topic) Please check this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend_(Spain) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend_(Spain) There is a lot of literature on the topic, so I won't discuss further.
- readarticle 6y agoI’m not quite sure what 17th century intraeuropean propaganda has to do with Andalusian conquistadors not being separatist English puritans, have you misread my comment as well?