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I am sure it will be hard for India to come up to that level if people just keep leaving for greener pastures. Europe didn’t get to be Europe by doing that. Of

I am sure it will be hard for India to come up to that level if people just keep leaving for greener pastures. Europe didn’t get to be Europe by doing that. Of course it’s your choice to leave, I don’t know it somehow smells bad to my value system, but that’s just my problem. If enough people keep landing in Europe like this, I am pretty sure sooner or later, Europeans will be upset. It’s inevitable and human nature. Fixing your own place is better than crashing at somebody else’s.

rendall 6y ago
"Europe didn’t get to be Europe by doing that..." No, because all the troublemakers left to the US! I kid. I kid.
- linuxlizard 6y ago
  (American here.) No, no. You have a point.
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    Me: Liberal Democrat Looks in my closet: Variety of legal assault rifles that would shock a European. Looks in my Garage: 4x4 Pickup truck and a plated dirtbike. America is packed to the brim with contrarian troublemakers. But we make some damn good beers.
- brabel 6y ago
  England got rid of all sorts of troublemakers by sending then down to Australia for a long time :D Somehow, it actually turned out great for both.
  - cutemonster 6y ago
    Except for the Aborigines (native Australians)
- Anthony-G 6y ago
  There’s an element of truth to this: in the 19th century a substantial number of Irish republicans found refuge in the US – enough to invade Canada! [1] In the case of Australia, the trouble-makers were sent there against their will. [1] https://guides.loc.gov/chronicling-america-fenian-invasions-canada https://guides.loc.gov/chronicling-america-fenian-invasions-...
- RobRivera 6y ago
  [Heartchuckle.gif]
helmholtz 6y ago
> Europeans will be upset. To an extent, they are. But most of the conversation here seems to be about refugees and asylum seekers rather than legal immigrants. It helps that I'm more than willing to adopt the European way of life: fashion, food, work-life balance and all the rest of it. As to your first point, that was the crux of my post. I no longer care (nor am offended by, mind you!) whether you judge me or not. I know how much vitriol coursed through my veins every day I was in Chennai, Bangalore, Delhi etc. And I know how much more at peace I am in France. I am a better human because of it; kinder, more useful to society etc. I would not trade any of it for more abstract notions of whether Europeans as a whole will be upset by the wider trends.
- ra7 6y ago
  > And I know how much more at peace I am in France. I am a better human because of it; kinder, more useful to society etc. At the risk of judging you, are you sure you are kinder? You just wrote a paragraph about “the typical Indian” in a fairly condescending tone and how you get upset over trivial things like “Indian English” phrases. It’s okay to not like the Indian lifestyle, not everyone has to, even if you are Indian. But please give people a chance and be less judgmental in order to actually practice kindness. Kindness isn't selectively applied to the people whose lifestyle you like.
  - helmholtz 6y ago
    Haha, fair enough, you mentioned it twice now, so I concede that I might be kinder, but I'm still not kind per se! I suppose I was burnt by a youth spent yearning to escape and hence the reactions. I promise I'm pretty harmless in real life :)
    - ra7 6y ago
      Again, I hear you and relate to a lot of things you said. As I get older though, those things seem trivial and I’ve learnt not to idolize one culture/lifestyle over others. You realize that’s just the way people are in that part of the world and it’s not due to malice.
mangamadaiyan 6y ago
Laudable sentiments indeed. Could you also expound a little on _how_ exactly you expect the parent(s) to "fix their own place"? Not everyone has to be a revolutionary. It is indeed human to tire of the fight, and equally human to want to live life without having to fight all the way. It is easy indeed to judge everybody else on the basis of (y)our value system; it is harder to walk a few steps in the other person's shoes.
- helmholtz 6y ago
  It's funny that that reminded me of James Damore. After his memo, there was I think an NYT article interviewing some women at Google's campus about their thoughts. One of them said something to the effect of "I just like to code, I'm not doing it to be revolutionary", but she was almost forced to take a position just through circumstances.
  - mangamadaiyan 6y ago
    Being forced to take a position by circumstances beyond one's control is an unfortunate situation to be in. Worse still is being judged for it -- especially in a discussion without nuance. Moving past these events (and more) takes a fair bit of effort.

rendall 6y ago

"Europe didn’t get to be Europe by doing that..." No, because all the troublemakers left to the US! I kid. I kid.

linuxlizard 6y ago
(American here.) No, no. You have a point.
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  Me: Liberal Democrat Looks in my closet: Variety of legal assault rifles that would shock a European. Looks in my Garage: 4x4 Pickup truck and a plated dirtbike. America is packed to the brim with contrarian troublemakers. But we make some damn good beers.
brabel 6y ago
England got rid of all sorts of troublemakers by sending then down to Australia for a long time :D Somehow, it actually turned out great for both.
- cutemonster 6y ago
  Except for the Aborigines (native Australians)
Anthony-G 6y ago
There’s an element of truth to this: in the 19th century a substantial number of Irish republicans found refuge in the US – enough to invade Canada! [1] In the case of Australia, the trouble-makers were sent there against their will. [1] https://guides.loc.gov/chronicling-america-fenian-invasions-canada https://guides.loc.gov/chronicling-america-fenian-invasions-...
RobRivera 6y ago
[Heartchuckle.gif]

helmholtz 6y ago

> Europeans will be upset. To an extent, they are. But most of the conversation here seems to be about refugees and asylum seekers rather than legal immigrants. It helps that I'm more than willing to adopt the European way of life: fashion, food, work-life balance and all the rest of it. As to your first point, that was the crux of my post. I no longer care (nor am offended by, mind you!) whether you judge me or not. I know how much vitriol coursed through my veins every day I was in Chennai, Bangalore, Delhi etc. And I know how much more at peace I am in France. I am a better human because of it; kinder, more useful to society etc. I would not trade any of it for more abstract notions of whether Europeans as a whole will be upset by the wider trends.

ra7 6y ago
> And I know how much more at peace I am in France. I am a better human because of it; kinder, more useful to society etc. At the risk of judging you, are you sure you are kinder? You just wrote a paragraph about “the typical Indian” in a fairly condescending tone and how you get upset over trivial things like “Indian English” phrases. It’s okay to not like the Indian lifestyle, not everyone has to, even if you are Indian. But please give people a chance and be less judgmental in order to actually practice kindness. Kindness isn't selectively applied to the people whose lifestyle you like.
- helmholtz 6y ago
  Haha, fair enough, you mentioned it twice now, so I concede that I might be kinder, but I'm still not kind per se! I suppose I was burnt by a youth spent yearning to escape and hence the reactions. I promise I'm pretty harmless in real life :)
  - ra7 6y ago
    Again, I hear you and relate to a lot of things you said. As I get older though, those things seem trivial and I’ve learnt not to idolize one culture/lifestyle over others. You realize that’s just the way people are in that part of the world and it’s not due to malice.

mangamadaiyan 6y ago

Laudable sentiments indeed. Could you also expound a little on _how_ exactly you expect the parent(s) to "fix their own place"? Not everyone has to be a revolutionary. It is indeed human to tire of the fight, and equally human to want to live life without having to fight all the way. It is easy indeed to judge everybody else on the basis of (y)our value system; it is harder to walk a few steps in the other person's shoes.

helmholtz 6y ago
It's funny that that reminded me of James Damore. After his memo, there was I think an NYT article interviewing some women at Google's campus about their thoughts. One of them said something to the effect of "I just like to code, I'm not doing it to be revolutionary", but she was almost forced to take a position just through circumstances.
- mangamadaiyan 6y ago
  Being forced to take a position by circumstances beyond one's control is an unfortunate situation to be in. Worse still is being judged for it -- especially in a discussion without nuance. Moving past these events (and more) takes a fair bit of effort.