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My complaint (as an Australian) against tipping is that I have no idea what the cost of my meal ends up being. If I dine out here at say a pub, the price for a

My complaint (as an Australian) against tipping is that I have no idea what the cost of my meal ends up being. If I dine out here at say a pub, the price for a steak is $30 AUD and the price of a beer is $5. The total price I pay is $35 AUD. This includes tax. This includes the wage for the staff front and back of house. And if for some reason I'm feeling like tipping the staff because they went the 'extra mile', I can optionally do so. This is super confusing in the US (as a visitor) when the price of a meal is advertised as $xx and then you go to pay and it's actually $xx + tax + tip. If I'm paying a minimum price of $xx + tax + 10% tip, why not just make that the price of the item? It just makes no sense to me!

sideshowb 6y ago
Being from a culture that usually tends to quote consumer prices all inclusive, I find the practice of doing otherwise outright slimy and deceptive. I admit this is irrationally emotional but it's one of those little details that somehow shapes my perception of the USA as a whole. *quoting b2b prices without vat is fair as whether or not tax is payable depends on the customer.
- pg_1234 6y ago
  You're not being irrational ... Americans are just slimy and deceptive.
  - dang 6y ago
    Nationalistic flamewar will get you banned here. Please don't post like this again, regardless of which country you have a problem with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
cmdshiftf4 6y ago
>why not just make that the price of the item? It just makes no sense to me! There's nothing stopping them from doing so but it benefits them by being deliberately opaque. Also, worth noting is that Americans consider 10% to be a stingy tip.
- username90 6y ago
  > Also, worth noting is that Americans consider 10% to be a stingy tip. How do you even know this? Who determines what a tip should be?
  - skissane 6y ago
    It isn't written down anywhere. You just watch what other people do and copy them. It isn't helpful (for a foreigner) in that you ask people "how much should I tip?" a lot of service staff won't give a clear answer. (They think it is rude to answer or something?) On business trips to the US, I observed what my American colleagues did, and copied their behaviour. I used to always tip 10% until I saw my American coworkers were always tipping 20% so I switched to that. Nobody ever complained when I tipped 10% though. (Maybe they are more tolerant of stingy tipping from obvious foreigners?) (And whether 10% or 20%, it was a business trip so my employer paid for it anyway.)
  - hackmiester 6y ago
    It's hard to document such things, but one place to look would be Point of Sale systems that show the most popular tipping options. They usually default to 10, 15, and 20%. I've also seen 15, 20, and 25%. Of course, the merchant can change the setting to determine which options are shown as quick picks. I'm just talking about defaults.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      My most recent trip to a tipping country was Canada, and the POS systems were often configured to suggest higher tips than the locals were giving. In one case, the waitress apologised and blamed the owner.
  - ergocoder 6y ago
    No one. I'll shame everyone who tips less than 30% with the usual arguments. You can google those arguments; it's something like they don't make enough money and etc. In reality, I tip only 15%. For delivery, I don't tip if there's already a service fee. I only tip because I'm scared I'll be assaulted. Yes, some people got assaulted (or verbally assaulted) because the tip less. Also, I don't tip if I won't see that person in real life. That's how tipping percentage is determined. The person who screams the loudest win. It's stupid.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
> My complaint (as an Australian) against tipping is that I have no idea what the cost of my meal ends up being. That is one of the purposes of tips. Price obfuscation is good for the sellers.
mbirth 6y ago
What's even more absurd: Consider ordering a bottle of wine for $30 vs. a bottle of wine for $300. The waiter has to do the exact same thing but suddenly you are expected to tip $60 instead of $6 if you were satisfied with the experience.
- ryanbrunner 6y ago
  There's an argument that if you're in a place that's selling $300 bottles of wine, and ordering $300 bottles of wine, there's an increased expectation on the server to be knowledgable about that wine, what to pair it with, etc. Whereas I wouldn't expect much knowledge from a place that sells a $30 bottle of wine outside of varietal and whether it's good or popular. I still think tipping is BS, but higher end restaurants will attract higher skilled front of house, and so it makes sense that they'll be paid more despite doing the same thing.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - mbirth 6y ago
    What if I don't need that expertise because I know exactly what wine I want? That's the same stupid reason why we have a dog tax in Germany. Some centuries ago some king - just on impulse - decided "if people can feed a dog they surely must have some extra money to give to their king". And we have to pay that stupid tax even today.
    - bobbean 6y ago
      If you have money to spend on a $300 bottle of wine, you can probably afford a bigger tip. If you don't want to tip 15-20% on that $300, don't. There's a big difference from owning a dog, and paying for its food, than spending money on a fun alcoholic beverage.
dbspin 6y ago
As a European I agree. It's bizarre trying to buy things in America, where you're expected to keep a running tally of state and federal taxes. Just put the actual price on the label, how hard is that?
- yurishimo 6y ago
  As an American, most every state has a standardized tax rate statewide. In Texas it is 8.25%. Florida is 6%. This means that most of your daily transactions are predictable. Weird exceptions might be for infrequent purchases like cars that are taxed differently.
  - senkora 6y ago
    Well, in Texas it varies from a minimum of 6.25% to a maximum of 8.25%, but 8.25 is indeed typical: > Texas imposes a 6.25 percent state sales and use tax on all retail sales, leases and rentals of most goods, as well as taxable services. Local taxing jurisdictions (cities, counties, special purpose districts and transit authorities) can also impose up to 2 percent sales and use tax for a maximum combined rate of 8.25 percent. https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/sales// https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/sales//
    - yurishimo 6y ago
      Literally every city imposes the 2%. Its defacto 8.25% statewide.
  - a5withtrrs 6y ago
    This is predictable IF you spend a lot of time there, but if you don't, say as a foreigner travelling throughout the US, it is not. Again, it's just extra hassle for no good reason, I don't understand why printing the FULL price of the item on the sticker/sign/whatever isn't a thing.
- rhino369 6y ago
  It's more like you are expected not to care how much the full total is. If you are frugal enough to care, its pretty easy to estimate for your own local area since you do it constantly.
wikibob 6y ago
10% tip will get you spit in your food if you ever go back there. Just FYI.
- a5withtrrs 6y ago
  So where's the manual for someone who just arrived in the US explaining that? How am I supposed to know that if someone doesn't tell me? How is that even a vaguely acceptable response, let alone _expected_ behavior I should anticipate? I cannot even fathom someone spitting in my food in Australia under pretty much any circumstance. Absolutely ludicrous!

sideshowb 6y ago

Being from a culture that usually tends to quote consumer prices all inclusive, I find the practice of doing otherwise outright slimy and deceptive. I admit this is irrationally emotional but it's one of those little details that somehow shapes my perception of the USA as a whole. *quoting b2b prices without vat is fair as whether or not tax is payable depends on the customer.

pg_1234 6y ago
You're not being irrational ... Americans are just slimy and deceptive.
- dang 6y ago
  Nationalistic flamewar will get you banned here. Please don't post like this again, regardless of which country you have a problem with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

cmdshiftf4 6y ago

>why not just make that the price of the item? It just makes no sense to me! There's nothing stopping them from doing so but it benefits them by being deliberately opaque. Also, worth noting is that Americans consider 10% to be a stingy tip.

username90 6y ago
> Also, worth noting is that Americans consider 10% to be a stingy tip. How do you even know this? Who determines what a tip should be?
- skissane 6y ago
  It isn't written down anywhere. You just watch what other people do and copy them. It isn't helpful (for a foreigner) in that you ask people "how much should I tip?" a lot of service staff won't give a clear answer. (They think it is rude to answer or something?) On business trips to the US, I observed what my American colleagues did, and copied their behaviour. I used to always tip 10% until I saw my American coworkers were always tipping 20% so I switched to that. Nobody ever complained when I tipped 10% though. (Maybe they are more tolerant of stingy tipping from obvious foreigners?) (And whether 10% or 20%, it was a business trip so my employer paid for it anyway.)
- hackmiester 6y ago
  It's hard to document such things, but one place to look would be Point of Sale systems that show the most popular tipping options. They usually default to 10, 15, and 20%. I've also seen 15, 20, and 25%. Of course, the merchant can change the setting to determine which options are shown as quick picks. I'm just talking about defaults.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    My most recent trip to a tipping country was Canada, and the POS systems were often configured to suggest higher tips than the locals were giving. In one case, the waitress apologised and blamed the owner.
- ergocoder 6y ago
  No one. I'll shame everyone who tips less than 30% with the usual arguments. You can google those arguments; it's something like they don't make enough money and etc. In reality, I tip only 15%. For delivery, I don't tip if there's already a service fee. I only tip because I'm scared I'll be assaulted. Yes, some people got assaulted (or verbally assaulted) because the tip less. Also, I don't tip if I won't see that person in real life. That's how tipping percentage is determined. The person who screams the loudest win. It's stupid.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

> My complaint (as an Australian) against tipping is that I have no idea what the cost of my meal ends up being. That is one of the purposes of tips. Price obfuscation is good for the sellers.

mbirth 6y ago

What's even more absurd: Consider ordering a bottle of wine for $30 vs. a bottle of wine for $300. The waiter has to do the exact same thing but suddenly you are expected to tip $60 instead of $6 if you were satisfied with the experience.

ryanbrunner 6y ago
There's an argument that if you're in a place that's selling $300 bottles of wine, and ordering $300 bottles of wine, there's an increased expectation on the server to be knowledgable about that wine, what to pair it with, etc. Whereas I wouldn't expect much knowledge from a place that sells a $30 bottle of wine outside of varietal and whether it's good or popular. I still think tipping is BS, but higher end restaurants will attract higher skilled front of house, and so it makes sense that they'll be paid more despite doing the same thing.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mbirth 6y ago
  What if I don't need that expertise because I know exactly what wine I want? That's the same stupid reason why we have a dog tax in Germany. Some centuries ago some king - just on impulse - decided "if people can feed a dog they surely must have some extra money to give to their king". And we have to pay that stupid tax even today.
  - bobbean 6y ago
    If you have money to spend on a $300 bottle of wine, you can probably afford a bigger tip. If you don't want to tip 15-20% on that $300, don't. There's a big difference from owning a dog, and paying for its food, than spending money on a fun alcoholic beverage.

dbspin 6y ago

As a European I agree. It's bizarre trying to buy things in America, where you're expected to keep a running tally of state and federal taxes. Just put the actual price on the label, how hard is that?

yurishimo 6y ago
As an American, most every state has a standardized tax rate statewide. In Texas it is 8.25%. Florida is 6%. This means that most of your daily transactions are predictable. Weird exceptions might be for infrequent purchases like cars that are taxed differently.
- senkora 6y ago
  Well, in Texas it varies from a minimum of 6.25% to a maximum of 8.25%, but 8.25 is indeed typical: > Texas imposes a 6.25 percent state sales and use tax on all retail sales, leases and rentals of most goods, as well as taxable services. Local taxing jurisdictions (cities, counties, special purpose districts and transit authorities) can also impose up to 2 percent sales and use tax for a maximum combined rate of 8.25 percent. https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/sales// https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/sales//
  - yurishimo 6y ago
    Literally every city imposes the 2%. Its defacto 8.25% statewide.
- a5withtrrs 6y ago
  This is predictable IF you spend a lot of time there, but if you don't, say as a foreigner travelling throughout the US, it is not. Again, it's just extra hassle for no good reason, I don't understand why printing the FULL price of the item on the sticker/sign/whatever isn't a thing.
rhino369 6y ago
It's more like you are expected not to care how much the full total is. If you are frugal enough to care, its pretty easy to estimate for your own local area since you do it constantly.

wikibob 6y ago

10% tip will get you spit in your food if you ever go back there. Just FYI.

a5withtrrs 6y ago
So where's the manual for someone who just arrived in the US explaining that? How am I supposed to know that if someone doesn't tell me? How is that even a vaguely acceptable response, let alone _expected_ behavior I should anticipate? I cannot even fathom someone spitting in my food in Australia under pretty much any circumstance. Absolutely ludicrous!