7 ms·

> If Facebook allows third parties to scrape data (who can incentivize users any which way) where does it stop? What say should Facebook have here though? I'd

> If Facebook allows third parties to scrape data (who can incentivize users any which way) where does it stop? What say should Facebook have here though? I'd argue that when I am viewing data through my browser it's on my computer at that point. I've downloaded it so why should Facebook be allowed to decide what I can and cannot do with it any more than they can decide what I can do with my emails that I also view on my computer?

gorgoiler 6y ago
...but Facebook doesn’t have to let you use their service (for free) if they don’t want to. If they don’t like something you are doing, they can do whatever they like.
- Guest42 6y ago
  Are you sure there isn’t more nuance to the situation?
  - _Understated_ 6y ago
    Like what? It's not running on their servers at this point: It's on my computer. Now, I don't know what the US laws exactly say about that but in terms of common sense, FB should not be allowed to make any claims to that data when it's on my computer. Sure, they can say "well, no more data for you, you're banned" but that's a different argument. In addition, having control over users of FB is one thing as they signed up to it and agreed to the terms but NYU didn't so I have no idea how they can even claim to enforce them especially if NYU are scraping data from the users computer (I assume they aren't making a connection to the FB servers!) Also, not that it matters for this argument, I do not have a FB (or any social media) account: I tried it, maybe 10 years ago, and found it silly :) Edit: Guys, this isn't Reddit! I'm all for downvotes but not drive-by downvoting... a simple "I downvoted you because..." would suffice. Edit2: Mea Culpa! As has been pointed out, I replied to someone that wasn't actually commenting on my post... not sure how I missed that!
    - Guest42 6y ago
      I agree with you. I was referring to the person above me.
- _Understated_ 6y ago
  Of course they can but my point still stands: what I do with data that is, by every definition, running on MY computer is my business, not Facebook's. Them banning me for doing that (possibly violating their Terms) is a separate argument. In addition, NYU didn't sign up to Facebook so they have no need to abide by their Terms. At least, they shouldn't have to abide by them... not sure what the laws in the US say about it. I'm not for government intervention for things like this but the courts (I believe) have already ruled that scraping data is legit. Edit: added that I think they shouldn't be able to have a say
boomboomsubban 6y ago
> I've downloaded it so why should Facebook be allowed to decide what I can and cannot do with it any more than they can decide what I can do with my emails that I also view on my computer? While I agree with your opinion, that data would still be Facebook/the advertisers' intellectual property and your actions could be considered infringing the terms you agreed with. Though NYU may not have agreed to those terms, encouraging others to violate the terms and provide them the data could be considered the intellectual property damages needed to at least start a civil court case
- _Understated_ 6y ago
  Fair point but I would argue that NYU are only looking at the page and saying "this user viewed ad XYZ" and recording that fact. They're not (I assume) copying the advert and storing it on their servers. I could see Facebook arguing that taking a copy of it is a violation of IP somehow. But simply looking at the page and recording some of the meta data is the same as someone asking me on the phone "what advert did you just view?". Would that be violating IP?
  - pletsch 6y ago
    Looks like they store the ads in a public DB https://adobserver.org/ad-database/ https://adobserver.org/ad-database/
  - est31 6y ago
    Samsung TVs take screenshots of displayed content and send them to their servers. They use it to track what you watch, whether it's the latest blockbuster DVD release or your private homemade porn video :). It's all sent to them.
    - hedora 6y ago
      That doesn’t count as copyright infringement because it doesn’t benefit the end user. /sarcasm
- goatinaboat 6y ago

gorgoiler 6y ago

...but Facebook doesn’t have to let you use their service (for free) if they don’t want to. If they don’t like something you are doing, they can do whatever they like.

Guest42 6y ago
Are you sure there isn’t more nuance to the situation?
- _Understated_ 6y ago
  Like what? It's not running on their servers at this point: It's on my computer. Now, I don't know what the US laws exactly say about that but in terms of common sense, FB should not be allowed to make any claims to that data when it's on my computer. Sure, they can say "well, no more data for you, you're banned" but that's a different argument. In addition, having control over users of FB is one thing as they signed up to it and agreed to the terms but NYU didn't so I have no idea how they can even claim to enforce them especially if NYU are scraping data from the users computer (I assume they aren't making a connection to the FB servers!) Also, not that it matters for this argument, I do not have a FB (or any social media) account: I tried it, maybe 10 years ago, and found it silly :) Edit: Guys, this isn't Reddit! I'm all for downvotes but not drive-by downvoting... a simple "I downvoted you because..." would suffice. Edit2: Mea Culpa! As has been pointed out, I replied to someone that wasn't actually commenting on my post... not sure how I missed that!
  - Guest42 6y ago
    I agree with you. I was referring to the person above me.
_Understated_ 6y ago
Of course they can but my point still stands: what I do with data that is, by every definition, running on MY computer is my business, not Facebook's. Them banning me for doing that (possibly violating their Terms) is a separate argument. In addition, NYU didn't sign up to Facebook so they have no need to abide by their Terms. At least, they shouldn't have to abide by them... not sure what the laws in the US say about it. I'm not for government intervention for things like this but the courts (I believe) have already ruled that scraping data is legit. Edit: added that I think they shouldn't be able to have a say

boomboomsubban 6y ago

> I've downloaded it so why should Facebook be allowed to decide what I can and cannot do with it any more than they can decide what I can do with my emails that I also view on my computer? While I agree with your opinion, that data would still be Facebook/the advertisers' intellectual property and your actions could be considered infringing the terms you agreed with. Though NYU may not have agreed to those terms, encouraging others to violate the terms and provide them the data could be considered the intellectual property damages needed to at least start a civil court case

_Understated_ 6y ago
Fair point but I would argue that NYU are only looking at the page and saying "this user viewed ad XYZ" and recording that fact. They're not (I assume) copying the advert and storing it on their servers. I could see Facebook arguing that taking a copy of it is a violation of IP somehow. But simply looking at the page and recording some of the meta data is the same as someone asking me on the phone "what advert did you just view?". Would that be violating IP?
- pletsch 6y ago
  Looks like they store the ads in a public DB https://adobserver.org/ad-database/ https://adobserver.org/ad-database/
- est31 6y ago
  Samsung TVs take screenshots of displayed content and send them to their servers. They use it to track what you watch, whether it's the latest blockbuster DVD release or your private homemade porn video :). It's all sent to them.
  - hedora 6y ago
    That doesn’t count as copyright infringement because it doesn’t benefit the end user. /sarcasm
goatinaboat 6y ago