4 ms·

It's already the case in several places. The people most opposed to that legislation are the bar/waitstaff. Anecdotally, I know bartenders with take home pay c

by qppo 6y ago

It's already the case in several places. The people most opposed to that legislation are the bar/waitstaff. Anecdotally, I know bartenders with take home pay close to engineers. They don't want tipping to go away.

learc83 6y ago
Tipping isn't going away just because waitstaff make minimum wage. It's too ingrained in the culture. As evidence tipping still exists and hasn't declined in the areas where those laws are already in effect. I'm sure there are bartenders making 6 figures, but according to the BLS, the 90th percentile make $40k with tips. The median pay is $10. That's lower than minimum wage in a lot of places, so I doubt that many bartenders are against minimum wage before tips (none of the ones I know are).
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I can see a reason why receivers of cash tips would not be honest with how much they earn, especially to the government.
  - learc83 6y ago
    I'm sure that makes a small difference, but I doubt it's enough to meaningfully change the conclusion. 1. The BLS knows this, so they get their data from multiple services--not just government agencies. 2. The IRS knows this, so are more likely to audit people who work in industries that receive tip income. 3. If the BLS numbers were vastly underestimating bartender income because of unreported cash tips, you would expect bartender income to have risen much faster than other similar low wage jobs over the last 20 years as cash has become less common. This hasn't happened.
  - katbyte 6y ago
    every bartender and server i know vastly underreports their income - makes 80,000 a year canadian in reality but reports 50,000
    - learc83 6y ago
      For a server to underreport 40% of their income they would need to be making a good bit more than that in cash. Especially when you consider that they are making some money hourly as well. I find it highly unlikely that a server is making anywhere near 60% or so of their tips in cash these days. Maybe there are a few locations with that high of a mix of cash, but not enough for that to be anywhere near normal.
alkonaut 6y ago
Tipping doesn’t go away because the baseline shifts. You just tip 0-10% for bad to good service instead of 15-25%. The first 10-15% of “tip” in the US isn’t a thanks, it’s a mandatory tax on menu prices.
- presto8 6y ago
  It would make sense if the tip were reduced when the minimum wage goes up, but it doesn't work that way, in at least two states I am familiar with (Washington and Oregon). Both of those states have minimum hourly cash wages for wait staff significantly above most states, yet the customary tipped amount is still ~20%. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    Changing legislation happens over night, adjusting tipping culture should take longer. Can’t see how it’s a problem that wait staff make “too much” for a while (or rather - how the problem should be addressed otherwise). The idea of a “secret” $120 price for a $100 dinner is pretty strange.

by qppo 6y ago

learc83 6y ago

Tipping isn't going away just because waitstaff make minimum wage. It's too ingrained in the culture. As evidence tipping still exists and hasn't declined in the areas where those laws are already in effect. I'm sure there are bartenders making 6 figures, but according to the BLS, the 90th percentile make $40k with tips. The median pay is $10. That's lower than minimum wage in a lot of places, so I doubt that many bartenders are against minimum wage before tips (none of the ones I know are).

lotsofpulp 6y ago
I can see a reason why receivers of cash tips would not be honest with how much they earn, especially to the government.
- learc83 6y ago
  I'm sure that makes a small difference, but I doubt it's enough to meaningfully change the conclusion. 1. The BLS knows this, so they get their data from multiple services--not just government agencies. 2. The IRS knows this, so are more likely to audit people who work in industries that receive tip income. 3. If the BLS numbers were vastly underestimating bartender income because of unreported cash tips, you would expect bartender income to have risen much faster than other similar low wage jobs over the last 20 years as cash has become less common. This hasn't happened.
- katbyte 6y ago
  every bartender and server i know vastly underreports their income - makes 80,000 a year canadian in reality but reports 50,000
  - learc83 6y ago
    For a server to underreport 40% of their income they would need to be making a good bit more than that in cash. Especially when you consider that they are making some money hourly as well. I find it highly unlikely that a server is making anywhere near 60% or so of their tips in cash these days. Maybe there are a few locations with that high of a mix of cash, but not enough for that to be anywhere near normal.

alkonaut 6y ago

Tipping doesn’t go away because the baseline shifts. You just tip 0-10% for bad to good service instead of 15-25%. The first 10-15% of “tip” in the US isn’t a thanks, it’s a mandatory tax on menu prices.

presto8 6y ago
It would make sense if the tip were reduced when the minimum wage goes up, but it doesn't work that way, in at least two states I am familiar with (Washington and Oregon). Both of those states have minimum hourly cash wages for wait staff significantly above most states, yet the customary tipped amount is still ~20%. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Changing legislation happens over night, adjusting tipping culture should take longer. Can’t see how it’s a problem that wait staff make “too much” for a while (or rather - how the problem should be addressed otherwise). The idea of a “secret” $120 price for a $100 dinner is pretty strange.