6 ms·

This is one reason why turnover is so high in the back end. Not only are many overworked, but they also get bitched at by everybody in the restaurant if they do

This is one reason why turnover is so high in the back end. Not only are many overworked, but they also get bitched at by everybody in the restaurant if they don't do something right or have to make a change. Meanwhile waiters and expos don't have any actual skills.

JackFr 6y ago
If you haven’t noticed turnover in the front of the house is also very high.
keiferski 6y ago
Trust me, as someone that’s been both front and back of house, being a waiter is not easy. Different skillset than being a cook, no doubt, but personally I found waiting far more stressful.
- username90 6y ago
  Bad waiters also gets tips since they are mandatory.
  - JackFr 6y ago
    No they’re really not. They’re discretionary.
    - username90 6y ago
      Waiters gets angry and starts arguing with you if you don't tip, it is as close to mandatory you can get without making it illegal.
      - katbyte 6y ago
        you still don't have too
        sixstringtheory 6y ago
        True, but you may not want to return and receive service from a waiter whom gets combative over how little you tip. As another person who has worked both front and back of house, I’ve seen and heard some pretty awful stuff. This is particularly why I hate the new custom of tipping before even receiving service or food. You have to do some game theoretic dance to decide whether you’ll get bad service if you tip low up front vs get bad service anyways because they’ve already got your money.
        codegeek 6y ago
        In theory Yes. In practice, do that to a waiter and if they remember you next time, Good luck eating that food. Tipping is seen almost as an entitled benefit now but provided by the customers instead of employers. It is a lose-lose situation for the customer and employee because waiters get paid like shit by their employer while customer has to cough up the "tip" regardless of how they felt about the food and service.
        grawprog 6y ago
        Why would you return to a restaurant where the service was so poor you didn't feel like leaving a tip? I've not left a tip a handful of times over some exceptionally bad service and food and never felt the desire to return to those restaurants.
        anfilt 6y ago
        I had thought the same, but a year a later that waiter was working at a different restaurant, I like. Needless say I have very distinctive hair. whether or not they remember me because my hair or not leaving tipping I don't know. Still was interesting they remembered me a year later from a restaurant I only went to once.
        grawprog 6y ago
        A waiter sees hundreds of people every single night. Unless you were particularly rude or did something memorable, I don't think they'd remember. People always believe people are paying more attention to them than they really are. Hell you probably weren't the only person not tipping that same night.
      - bigbubba 6y ago
        Let them yell. If they gave you such bad service that it comes to that, it's not like you'll be coming back to that restaurant anyway. I have refused to tip a handful of times and not once have I had any desire to return to those restaurants. They could burn down for all I care.
      - bobbean 6y ago
        You walk out the door. Or you wait until the server is away from your table before walking out the door if you don't want to risk confrontation.
      - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
        Fall on the ground and knock over a table, claim the waiter shoved you. Demand a free meal from the manager. Win win! I'm kidding about the above, but to be honest, you just don't say anything. The likelihood they're gonna slash your tires or something on your way out isn't even a possibility.
    - mbirth 6y ago
      From reading many threads about this kind of thing: tips in the US rised in recent years. In many places if you only tip 10% you're being asked what was wrong with your food (don't dare to only tip 5%!). 15% is considered mediocre, 20% is baseline "all good". 25% starts to be on the "very good" side.
      - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
        It's really weird to me how recommended tip levels have shifted in my lifetime (really in the past 15 years): When I was a kid in the 80s/90s, 15% was standard (there was even the mnemonic to calculate it: 10% is easy to calculate, then take half that and add it). 18% was for really outstanding service, 20% was for outstanding service when someone wanted to show off, and 25% was basically unheard of besides some gossip mag detailing how rich a celebrity was ("They tipped 25%!") Now I see tip amounts that default to 20%. My hypothesis, and perhaps this is a relatively sad commentary in the US, is that the level of inequality in major US cities is off the charts: for many people eating at a nice restaurant in a major city, food, even eating out, is a tiny portion of their overall budget, so adding 5% is really nothing, but people working in restaurants are really struggling to get by (and diners know it), so the increased tip rate is basically a consequence of trying to make unaffordable large cities bearable for workers.
        MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
        Yeah I remember distinctively that 10% used to be the go to. Then one day I mentioned that to someone and they balked and just said "Only?" I said that's fair isn't it? They said I should be doing at least 20% minimum. Ever since then I've just stopped going to places that require tipping. I just hate it. I hate knowing when to tip, who to tip, what if someone else sees me tip something that might be too low, someone balks at how much I tip. I just hate it all around. This is why I never if at all go to places that tip. I like to stick to places where I know what I'm gonna spend the moment I place my order. I don't even care if I gotta drive myself to get my order. I just hate dealing with tipping culture in general. It places a cultural onus on me that places me in a situation that I want to avoid entirely.
    - Izkata 6y ago
      If you see "gratuity" on the bill, that's a required tip. From what I remember they're usually only added for large groups though (like 6+ people).
  - jb1991 6y ago
    I can’t recall any restaurant I’ve ever eaten at in the world were a tip was mandatory. If you eat with a large party of several people, usually at least six or eight people, then they will often add a service charge to the bill, that’s the only thing I’ve seen that comes close to what you’re suggesting.
jb1991 6y ago
If you think waiters don't have any actual skills, I encourage you to spend some time as a waiter at a busy restaurant where most of your income is in the form of tips, and then see how your skills improve over time. It is not an easy job, and harder still to make it a good customer experience. You must develop skills to make it work or you can't last for long.
- bigbubba 6y ago
  The only skills codebros can recognize involve a keyboard. Many people here have probably never had any other sort of job, and consequently lack empathy for anybody who doesn't work in tech.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    I worked as a cleaner in a factory for 3 months before I started university. I didn't get tips, and it was hard work in an uncomfortable environment (30°+ all summer, wearing overalls), but a useful experience to look back on.
- tfehring 6y ago
  GP went too far with that claim but I think their broader point is valid - BOH work is at least comparably hard and demanding to FOH work but often pays 1/4 to 1/2 as much. Same goes for lots of other “unskilled” non-tipped jobs.

JackFr 6y ago

If you haven’t noticed turnover in the front of the house is also very high.

keiferski 6y ago

Trust me, as someone that’s been both front and back of house, being a waiter is not easy. Different skillset than being a cook, no doubt, but personally I found waiting far more stressful.

username90 6y ago
Bad waiters also gets tips since they are mandatory.
- JackFr 6y ago
  No they’re really not. They’re discretionary.
  - username90 6y ago
    Waiters gets angry and starts arguing with you if you don't tip, it is as close to mandatory you can get without making it illegal.
    - katbyte 6y ago
      you still don't have too
      - sixstringtheory 6y ago
        True, but you may not want to return and receive service from a waiter whom gets combative over how little you tip. As another person who has worked both front and back of house, I’ve seen and heard some pretty awful stuff. This is particularly why I hate the new custom of tipping before even receiving service or food. You have to do some game theoretic dance to decide whether you’ll get bad service if you tip low up front vs get bad service anyways because they’ve already got your money.
      - codegeek 6y ago
        In theory Yes. In practice, do that to a waiter and if they remember you next time, Good luck eating that food. Tipping is seen almost as an entitled benefit now but provided by the customers instead of employers. It is a lose-lose situation for the customer and employee because waiters get paid like shit by their employer while customer has to cough up the "tip" regardless of how they felt about the food and service.
        grawprog 6y ago
        Why would you return to a restaurant where the service was so poor you didn't feel like leaving a tip? I've not left a tip a handful of times over some exceptionally bad service and food and never felt the desire to return to those restaurants.
        anfilt 6y ago
        I had thought the same, but a year a later that waiter was working at a different restaurant, I like. Needless say I have very distinctive hair. whether or not they remember me because my hair or not leaving tipping I don't know. Still was interesting they remembered me a year later from a restaurant I only went to once.
        grawprog 6y ago
        A waiter sees hundreds of people every single night. Unless you were particularly rude or did something memorable, I don't think they'd remember. People always believe people are paying more attention to them than they really are. Hell you probably weren't the only person not tipping that same night.
    - bigbubba 6y ago
      Let them yell. If they gave you such bad service that it comes to that, it's not like you'll be coming back to that restaurant anyway. I have refused to tip a handful of times and not once have I had any desire to return to those restaurants. They could burn down for all I care.
    - bobbean 6y ago
      You walk out the door. Or you wait until the server is away from your table before walking out the door if you don't want to risk confrontation.
    - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
      Fall on the ground and knock over a table, claim the waiter shoved you. Demand a free meal from the manager. Win win! I'm kidding about the above, but to be honest, you just don't say anything. The likelihood they're gonna slash your tires or something on your way out isn't even a possibility.
  - mbirth 6y ago
    From reading many threads about this kind of thing: tips in the US rised in recent years. In many places if you only tip 10% you're being asked what was wrong with your food (don't dare to only tip 5%!). 15% is considered mediocre, 20% is baseline "all good". 25% starts to be on the "very good" side.
    - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
      It's really weird to me how recommended tip levels have shifted in my lifetime (really in the past 15 years): When I was a kid in the 80s/90s, 15% was standard (there was even the mnemonic to calculate it: 10% is easy to calculate, then take half that and add it). 18% was for really outstanding service, 20% was for outstanding service when someone wanted to show off, and 25% was basically unheard of besides some gossip mag detailing how rich a celebrity was ("They tipped 25%!") Now I see tip amounts that default to 20%. My hypothesis, and perhaps this is a relatively sad commentary in the US, is that the level of inequality in major US cities is off the charts: for many people eating at a nice restaurant in a major city, food, even eating out, is a tiny portion of their overall budget, so adding 5% is really nothing, but people working in restaurants are really struggling to get by (and diners know it), so the increased tip rate is basically a consequence of trying to make unaffordable large cities bearable for workers.
      - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
        Yeah I remember distinctively that 10% used to be the go to. Then one day I mentioned that to someone and they balked and just said "Only?" I said that's fair isn't it? They said I should be doing at least 20% minimum. Ever since then I've just stopped going to places that require tipping. I just hate it. I hate knowing when to tip, who to tip, what if someone else sees me tip something that might be too low, someone balks at how much I tip. I just hate it all around. This is why I never if at all go to places that tip. I like to stick to places where I know what I'm gonna spend the moment I place my order. I don't even care if I gotta drive myself to get my order. I just hate dealing with tipping culture in general. It places a cultural onus on me that places me in a situation that I want to avoid entirely.
  - Izkata 6y ago
    If you see "gratuity" on the bill, that's a required tip. From what I remember they're usually only added for large groups though (like 6+ people).
- jb1991 6y ago
  I can’t recall any restaurant I’ve ever eaten at in the world were a tip was mandatory. If you eat with a large party of several people, usually at least six or eight people, then they will often add a service charge to the bill, that’s the only thing I’ve seen that comes close to what you’re suggesting.

jb1991 6y ago

If you think waiters don't have any actual skills, I encourage you to spend some time as a waiter at a busy restaurant where most of your income is in the form of tips, and then see how your skills improve over time. It is not an easy job, and harder still to make it a good customer experience. You must develop skills to make it work or you can't last for long.

bigbubba 6y ago
The only skills codebros can recognize involve a keyboard. Many people here have probably never had any other sort of job, and consequently lack empathy for anybody who doesn't work in tech.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  I worked as a cleaner in a factory for 3 months before I started university. I didn't get tips, and it was hard work in an uncomfortable environment (30°+ all summer, wearing overalls), but a useful experience to look back on.
tfehring 6y ago
GP went too far with that claim but I think their broader point is valid - BOH work is at least comparably hard and demanding to FOH work but often pays 1/4 to 1/2 as much. Same goes for lots of other “unskilled” non-tipped jobs.