4 ms·

I don't tip and never will.

ghaff 6y ago
I hope you don't use any services where tipping is expected. Otherwise, you're just rude and taking advantage of people.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  That goes to the heart of this argument: whose responsibility is it that the waiter is paid an acceptable wage, the patron or the manager?
  - klodolph 6y ago
    You can argue about how the system should work until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that if you show up at a restaurant and don’t tip, then you are making your waiter have a bad day.
    - CamelCaseName 6y ago
      I would like to set the expectation now that I expect to be compensated 15% of your hourly wage every time you read one of my HN comments. I assure you that I will have a bad day if you visit HN and read one of my comments without paying. You can argue that HN should be free to read until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that if you show up in this thread and read my comment and don't pay me, then you are making me have a bad day.
      - klodolph 6y ago
        You can like to set any expectation you want, but the expectation to tip waiters is an actual, real expectation and not some kind of fabrication for a thought experiment. You could also argue that “driving on the right side of the road” is nothing more than an American social convention and choose to ignore it. Let’s face it—there is no logical justification for our society to choose driving on the right side of the road, versus the left.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Driving on the right side of the road in the US is the law, not a social convention.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
  Their employer will make up their wage. You don't work at Red Robin for a living.
  - klodolph 6y ago
    The employer will only make up their wage to minimum. Ask any waiter whose base rate is below minimum how this works. The problem is that this is only done when the base wage + tips over a period falls below minimum wage. So it’s less likely that the employer will make up the difference, and more likely that other people around who are following social conventions will make up the difference, and the waiter will simply earn less money on days when you show up, and you will pay less money for food, because your food is partially subsidized by people who tip.
    - username90 6y ago
      Waiters wants tipping to stay since they make way more than typical unskilled workers with tips. Which is why you shouldn't tip, they make more than they should already. The best way to make them demand proper wages is to stop tipping until their wages are in line with typical for their kind of work.
      - klodolph 6y ago
        > The best way to make them demand proper wages is to stop tipping until their wages are in line with typical for their kind of work. Perhaps that would work if everyone did it. This would require a lot of organization, some kind of massive anti-tipping movement across our entire society, in order for it to work. In the absence of such a social movement, the actual effect of not tipping is that you benefit and your waiter suffers. So, I guess the question is—are your actions to not tip waiters coordinated with a movement of other people with the goal of achieving change? Or are you simply cheap, and looking for a way to feel good about it?
        username90 6y ago
        I don't live in the US, I am not talking about individual efforts. I am talking about how to end the shitty system you have in the US.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Employers are rude and taking advantage of people. A person paying what they are asked and stated to pay is not being rude and taking advantage of people. When I was younger, there was tipping for waiters. Now, if someone hands you a drink, they swivel an iPad around and present an option for a 25% tip.
  - klodolph 6y ago
    The system is unjust, and you are paying less than what is expected of you, and you benefit from this because your meals are partially subsidized by people around you who are tipping, so you benefit and others suffer by your decision.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      While I do tip waiters since that is the norm, I don’t tip others. I also don’t purchase food delivery since the cost to quality ratio is ridiculously high to me, especially considering the tips people now expect. But the system is unjust because people keep rewarding those who make the system unjust. Mainly employers and the tip receivers who like to evade taxes. Both of these can be fixed by greatly increasing minimum wages or implementing a universal basic income.
      - klodolph 6y ago
        I don’t think low-paid workers receiving cash tips should be paying much in taxes to begin with. Instead, I think the system should require me and others like me to pay more in taxes.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Evading taxes with cash tips for food service workers is not the way to accomplish that. That is accomplished with marginal income tax rates.
        klodolph 6y ago
- bthrn 6y ago
  I would actually say the employer is the one taking advantage of people, not the customer. They’re exploiting social pressure to get away with not paying staff a livable wage.

I hope you don't use any services where tipping is expected. Otherwise, you're just rude and taking advantage of people.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
That goes to the heart of this argument: whose responsibility is it that the waiter is paid an acceptable wage, the patron or the manager?
- klodolph 6y ago
  You can argue about how the system should work until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that if you show up at a restaurant and don’t tip, then you are making your waiter have a bad day.
  - CamelCaseName 6y ago
    I would like to set the expectation now that I expect to be compensated 15% of your hourly wage every time you read one of my HN comments. I assure you that I will have a bad day if you visit HN and read one of my comments without paying. You can argue that HN should be free to read until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that if you show up in this thread and read my comment and don't pay me, then you are making me have a bad day.
    - klodolph 6y ago
      You can like to set any expectation you want, but the expectation to tip waiters is an actual, real expectation and not some kind of fabrication for a thought experiment. You could also argue that “driving on the right side of the road” is nothing more than an American social convention and choose to ignore it. Let’s face it—there is no logical justification for our society to choose driving on the right side of the road, versus the left.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Driving on the right side of the road in the US is the law, not a social convention.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Their employer will make up their wage. You don't work at Red Robin for a living.
- klodolph 6y ago
  The employer will only make up their wage to minimum. Ask any waiter whose base rate is below minimum how this works. The problem is that this is only done when the base wage + tips over a period falls below minimum wage. So it’s less likely that the employer will make up the difference, and more likely that other people around who are following social conventions will make up the difference, and the waiter will simply earn less money on days when you show up, and you will pay less money for food, because your food is partially subsidized by people who tip.
  - username90 6y ago
    Waiters wants tipping to stay since they make way more than typical unskilled workers with tips. Which is why you shouldn't tip, they make more than they should already. The best way to make them demand proper wages is to stop tipping until their wages are in line with typical for their kind of work.
    - klodolph 6y ago
      > The best way to make them demand proper wages is to stop tipping until their wages are in line with typical for their kind of work. Perhaps that would work if everyone did it. This would require a lot of organization, some kind of massive anti-tipping movement across our entire society, in order for it to work. In the absence of such a social movement, the actual effect of not tipping is that you benefit and your waiter suffers. So, I guess the question is—are your actions to not tip waiters coordinated with a movement of other people with the goal of achieving change? Or are you simply cheap, and looking for a way to feel good about it?
      - username90 6y ago
        I don't live in the US, I am not talking about individual efforts. I am talking about how to end the shitty system you have in the US.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
Employers are rude and taking advantage of people. A person paying what they are asked and stated to pay is not being rude and taking advantage of people. When I was younger, there was tipping for waiters. Now, if someone hands you a drink, they swivel an iPad around and present an option for a 25% tip.
- klodolph 6y ago
  The system is unjust, and you are paying less than what is expected of you, and you benefit from this because your meals are partially subsidized by people around you who are tipping, so you benefit and others suffer by your decision.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    While I do tip waiters since that is the norm, I don’t tip others. I also don’t purchase food delivery since the cost to quality ratio is ridiculously high to me, especially considering the tips people now expect. But the system is unjust because people keep rewarding those who make the system unjust. Mainly employers and the tip receivers who like to evade taxes. Both of these can be fixed by greatly increasing minimum wages or implementing a universal basic income.
    - klodolph 6y ago
      I don’t think low-paid workers receiving cash tips should be paying much in taxes to begin with. Instead, I think the system should require me and others like me to pay more in taxes.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Evading taxes with cash tips for food service workers is not the way to accomplish that. That is accomplished with marginal income tax rates.
        klodolph 6y ago
bthrn 6y ago
I would actually say the employer is the one taking advantage of people, not the customer. They’re exploiting social pressure to get away with not paying staff a livable wage.