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Apple MacBook Pro 13” M1 Review- Why You Might Want to Pass

84 points by d3mon 6y ago

chmaynard 6y ago
There's nothing of any value in this diatribe disguised as a review.
- hyperbovine 6y ago
  The same could be said for this comment. His article is full of concrete reasons why you might not want to buy an M1 right now. Would you care to address even a single one?
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    The article is full of concrete reasons not to buy an M1 if you use Microsoft and Adobe software. I suspect the number of Edge users in the Mac ecosystem is not high. Acrobat might be more of a problem, but it's still not quite the mainstream MacBook Air use case. The question isn't so much "Do these apps work?" but "When will they work?" MS and Adobe will be distributing Apple Silicon builds within the year - most likely within six months, and possibly by early next year. So these are showstopper problems if you need these applications on a Mac right now, but not so much if you're planning to wait and see a while. Honestly, Catalina and Big Sur broke far more applications than the M1 move did. If you're doing the prudent thing and running a year or so behind it's very likely there will be fewer problems. So ultimately there aren't many reasons beyond novelty and a percentage of natural replacement why most people who lean heavily on Office and Acrobat are going to need a Macbook Air right now.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- S_A_P 6y ago
  Agreed. Looks like he was seeking out apps that don’t work on day one(could be os related or Rosetta related because a lot of Mac software isn’t fully ported to Big Sur yet) Reviving the non touch screen argument, which is 100% subjective and basically written with vitriol towards the Apple marketing. Click bait hit piece.
- dagw 6y ago
  Completely disagree. This is the first review I've seen that talks about performance of 'obscure' third party apps that might never see a native port. That's very valuable to some people.
coldtea 6y ago
He had an angle (pass for now) and stuck to it admirably...
PostThisTooFast 6y ago
It seems like a long road to native apps on the Mac. It's been hard enough just to get plug-in vendors and everyone else to go to 64-bit. Now a whole new architecture? But this is ridiculous: "What I’ve never comprehended is why Apple supports touch displays on iPhones, Watch, and iPad, but not on the MacBook." Because touchscreens on computers are STUPID. People use computers because they need PRECISION, and they don't want a dumbed-down UI with giant buttons taking up the whole screen so you can poke at them with your fat fingers... while blocking your view of the UI with your hand. The computer has a trackpad and keyboard. USE THEM. So dumb.
3jckd 6y ago
In other news, gen-1 device is good but not perfect yet.
- unglaublich 6y ago
  gen-1 device, marketed as gen-... 10 device? bearing the well known name of an established product.
  - theklr 6y ago
    How’s it marketed as a gen 10 device? They didn’t remove the higher tiered macs still running intel in the pros. The airs they blow past their previous versions. MacBook has been the same since power pc. Also has the same non first party issues as the previous on it day zero devices. This is not new for legacy Apple users.
mensetmanusman 6y ago
“ I don’t think it can keep, made claims it doesn’t explain during announcements, and that the Apple-chosen reviewers didn’t find the warts I found in the first two hours of review.” A good reminder of how everyone has an agenda when they are writing. A good early M1 user experience will be had by those entirely in the apple software ecosystem. If you are venturing out of the ecosystem, use a good Remote Desktop application and a powerful plugged in computer to get the best of both worlds.
bstar77 6y ago
"Apple-chosen press" is referenced in almost every paragraph of this article if you are wondering what the author's intent is here. I'll sum up his unique complaints... Lots of old Microsoft specific software still doesn't work well at the moment. If you are an enthusiastic Edge browser user, this laptop probably isn't for you.
- daviddever23box 6y ago
  Chrome works better on M1 / Big Sur than it ever did on Intel / Catalina; Edge will catch up in due time. Firefox is extremely buggy right now, even if it claims to be Universal (where art thou Rust tooling?), so perhaps the wait-and-see approach is right. On the MacBook Air I have here (8 GB RAM / 512 GB SSD), it’s quite clear that Apple is onto something here.
- jmuguy 6y ago
  This has gotta be the first time I’ve heard of anyone using Edge on macOS... I mean, why?
  - rasputin243 6y ago
    Cross-browser testing of web apps would be one use case.
    - leadingthenet 6y ago
      Edge has the same engine as Chrome, so no real reason to test both in most circumstances.
  - mgkimsal 6y ago
    the reviewer mentioned word and excel and teams - very likely they're "all in" on the ms office suite, except for... running it on windows.
  - srik 6y ago
    Going off the rest of his stack, probably corporate reasons.
mikl 6y ago
It should hardly come as a surprise to anyone with just a little technical knowledge, that when you switch to a completely new system architecture, 3rd party apps do not all work perfectly from day one. Apple did not promise anything wrt. 3rd party apps, so talking about “broken promise” is downright dishonest. But that’s just the usual from the Forbes Contributor Network and Clown Car Testing Facility.
- the_lucifer 6y ago
  And it's sad because Apple has actually provided a very robust translation layer in Rosetta 2 Every single day we hear of at least one well known app adding support for M1 Macs. It's all a matter of time. I'd wager we'd have a robust ecosystem of apps once the Pro Macs launch (higher end 13" and the 16")
- SloopJon 6y ago
  > Apple did not promise anything wrt. 3rd party apps Of course they did: "With the introduction of Rosetta 2, M1 and macOS Big Sur seamlessly run apps that haven't yet transitioned to Universal versions. So without updating, you can keep working on Fusion360 projects or reach the next level in your favorite game." Rosetta 2 (and Rosetta before it) may be an amazing technical accomplishment, but it's entirely fair for a reviewer to say it doesn't cut it for him. As funny as some of his choices are (Edge on a Mac, on purpose?), he's not reaching; this is what he uses everyday. It's also fair to point out that if your favorite game doesn't happen to be Rise of the Tomb Raider, your mileage may vary. I think the reviewer is a little unfair in his emphasis on "Apple-chosen" reviewers, but this frankly is the kind of thing I look for. Five-star reviews are rarely as useful to me as three-star reviews.
kowlo 6y ago
I expected fewer third party applications to work with Apple's transition to M1. Rosetta 2 has been a pleasant surprise...
xiwenc 6y ago
Two highlights for me that were useful: 1) keep expectations low in terms of compatibility. Most non apple apps will take time before they are ported to run natively on M1 2) related to point 1, the great battery life being marketed is not applicable if your apps arsenal is not native yet. These two might sound trivial to some but i did not think of them initially. I was ready to get the M1 if there’s a good deal next weeks. But now i’m not sure. What are your thoughts?
- mirthflat83 6y ago
  It’s not that hard really. Just look up if the apps you’re planning planning to use has battery or compatibility issues. https://isapplesiliconready.com/ https://isapplesiliconready.com/ I personally have not experienced any issues and the M1 is a marvel. Also, the return window is through January. I sure as hell am not going to return mine.
- S_A_P 6y ago
  To point 1- some native Mac apps are not Big Sur compatible yet. It could be 2 separate issues. I held off from upgrading to Big Sur on my audio/daw iMac Pro for this reason. 2- claim seems slightly dubious as it depends on the app. Some translated software is more cpu intensive than others. So maybe? Just like the native stuff will be.
  - ianai 6y ago
    I’ve used some non optimized stuff and it didn’t seem to hit the battery. I’d be curious if people are tracking this somewhere.
  - qppo 6y ago
    If you're doing audio production you should never upgrade MacOS immediately. I get almost as many emails from developers telling me not to as I get notifications from Apple telling me to upgrade. This has been true for at least the last 15 years, MacOS upgrades always screw something up. Usually iLok
    - 6y ago
uvesten 6y ago
Considering the software this reviewer focuses on, he can’t have much fun using a computer ever, and it shows.
- lode 6y ago
  In my 19 years of using Macs, I’ve never even heard of WinZip for Mac. Sure, I’ve used 3rd party compression tools for formats like 7Zip or bz2, but why you’d want to run WinZip on macOS today is beyond me.
CyberRabbi 6y ago
I was also under the impression from apple’s announcements that Rosetta 2 had much higher compatibility and stability. I absolutely can’t have critical applications like Skype or office crash on me.
pookieinc 6y ago
| Want assured software compatibility and performance How has the experience been for software developers across the board? Would love to hear personal accounts since all I'm finding is very generic articles like this one (talking about fan speed, performance charts, etc. but nothing specific targeting specialist areas)
- dan1234 6y ago
  Docker and Android emulators aren’t currently working, which is probably the biggest thing keeping me from buying. I don’t expect them to be broken for too long. x86 windows virtualisation is probably going to be the biggest issue for most people, and I don’t see working (maybe wine + qemu, but not full os).
OzzyB 6y ago
To paraphrase: > New chipset with new architecture means old apps won't run or will be slow Wow, you don't say. I been watching a few review videos[0] (not sure if they're from the "Apple-Choosen Press") and the results are absolutely astonishing. But the thing is, this shouldn't be surprising. This is the final form of the Apple Ethos of full vertical integration, from OS all the way down to (now) the frikking processor. I think they're afraid, and I don't care if my new Apple M1 Macbook doesn't run Office well, it's Logic/FinalCut/etc. that matters to me and most people. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXgLBa5jgr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXgLBa5jgr8
lmilcin 6y ago
I am personally not buying MackBook for other reasons (I want to be master of my own machine and I am willing to pay costs of maintaining Linux on it, I hate shallow keyboard and no function keys). The only reason against M1 itself I can think of is the tight grip Apple is going to have over entire stack (including memory). They will be creating all possible configurations and you are going to have to pay whatever premium Apple thinks they are able to impose on you which, extrapolating from the past, is going to be hefty. But, I think M1 is amazing piece of technology and would switch in no time if not for other reasons. I also think competition is going to take a hint and we can expect more of this in the future.
themgt 6y ago
This review is hilariously bad and biased ("no touchscreen or 5G!"), but the app compatibility is an expected chicken-or-egg issue with early adopters. The point I would make is you have to weigh the app experience in Nov 2020 against your expected experience for the rest of the life of the machine. I know people who've kept Macs running for nearly a decade (e.g. 2011 Macbook Air) and I'd strongly suspect 5 years from now a 2020 M1 Mac will be a lot more futureproof and app-compatible than a 2020 Intel Mac. If your main concern is running Zoom and OneNote for the next 6 months, maybe sit out M1 for now.
- Jonnax 6y ago
  Why would a review be biased if they want 5G or a touchscreen in their laptop? Those are features of other laptops. And Apple already ships the technogy to support both.
  - closeparen 6y ago
    This is sort of like complaining about the passenger capacity of a 911 or the cornering on a minivan. You expect a review to describe how good something is at being what it intends to be, not how the reviewer prefers an entirely different style.
    - paulryanrogers 6y ago
      People can wish for things within creations that the creators never imagined or considered inappropriate. Which is why mod-ability is a nice escape hatch. Sadly Apple has rarely supported or encouraged that in their hardware.
- ianai 6y ago
  Apple shows no signs towards being interested in selling a touch screen laptop. They steer people to their iPads for that and have indicated otherwise for their laptops. Rightly or wrongly.
  - othercharles 6y ago
CalChris 6y ago
A few Pro features Apple could add to the MacBook Pro: ECC, ZFS, function keys Yeah, function keys like on the Air. I don't know anyone who likes the Touch Bar. I'd like to get a Pro but the Air is very very good and I don't find anything that I really value on the Pro. Yes, the Pro is faster than the Air but the Air is fast and faster apparently requires a fan.
- bstar77 6y ago
  The pro is not any faster, it just has a fan that kicks in that prevents the machine from throttling as quickly. Someone who buys a PC with a water cooler isn't buying a machine that's faster than someone buying one with an air cooler. I realize there's a nuance here.
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    Throttling means slowing down. Not-throttling means going faster.
    - withinboredom 6y ago
      > Not-throttling means going faster. No, it means not going slower. You don't go faster by not going slower.
  - chongli 6y ago
    From the reviews on YouTube that I’ve seen, the fan on the Pro is inaudible all the time, even after running Cinebench in a loop for 30 mins. The reviewer was able to conclude that the fan was actually doing something, since the benchmark score held steady over those multiple consecutive runs whereas the score of the Air dropped after about ten minutes of sustained load. I’m sure the Pro has the same throttling logic as the Air since they’re identical apart from the fan and case/peripherals but it’s going to be very difficult to get it to throttle. I would think you’d need to run a microbenchmark of vector instructions in a very tight loop just to get the fan to spin fast enough to be audible. Under normal use it may never happen unless the fan fails.
  - 6y ago
grey-area 6y ago
This is a review from someone who uses Microsoft Edge, Outlook, and Adobe Reader on a Mac. Those are very unusual choices nowadays for Mac software, so I don't think this applies to most Mac users considering upgrading.
- bstar77 6y ago
  I think I finally convinced my wife to stop using Acrobat Reader for Mac, which performs and looks like a java swing app. I don't know why she refused to use Preview for viewing PDFs, but I think some people just get set in their ways. That said, these people should not be writing technical reviews for major news organizations.
  - soapdog 6y ago
    I had to use Acrobat Reader on a Mac to work with a book publisher because the comments they were attaching to the manuscript didn't work the same on Apple Preview. PDFs don't behave exactly the same everywhere for things that goes beyond just reading documents. For example, I had a reply on the PDF that was visible on Preview but vanished when you tried to read on Acrobat Reader, that caused a lot of trouble with the publisher that claimed I didn't answer... YMMV with regarding to these features and them working across apps.
- Closi 6y ago
  Outlook isn’t a weird software choice to be fair, I’ve never found another email application that comes close if you are a heavy user. Adobe reader and edge... I agree have better alternatives that come shipped with Mac.
  - grey-area 6y ago
    Sure I think Outlook is fairly widely used in corp environments, though I’d be surprised to find many such environments who use outlook purchasing or supporting mac laptops for their users. There are cheaper and perfectly capable windows machines for office work. So it is an unusual choice on an Apple laptop, but also I expect it to be supported in time, and it is unsurprising that it is not amongst the first apps ported to a new architecture.
crb 6y ago
This device, and the non-Touch Bar "MacBook Escape" before it, succeed or fail based on what you think "Pro" means. John Gruber thinks when Apple says "Pro" they mean "deluxe" or "nicer". (See https://daringfireball.net/2015/11/the_ipad_pro https://daringfireball.net/2015/11/the_ipad_pro for example.) You can argue that this could have been avoided by calling this particular device the MacBook. But that might have made people think it was the default choice, where Apple probably expects you to start with the Air. Naming is hard.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  Apple trashed the "Macbook" reputation with the previous generation of intentionally crippled 1-port (including charging!) machines. Now they are stuck with a 13" pro that stopped being Pro.
  - tehwebguy 6y ago
    The single port MacBook is my favorite computer to date! It’s not for everyone, including you obviously, but I’m not sure what reputation would have to do with that. Just different computers with different purposes.
- jamil7 6y ago
  I guess a lot of it has to do with aspirational marketing. It's the same with DSLRs or sporty versions of cars. If you would benefit from more available peripherals and monitors, a bigger screen and more memory (pretty much most professional computer people I can think of would benefit from these) then this likely isn't the machine for you.
- mikelward 6y ago
  "MacBook Plus"? "MacBook Premium"?
- kurko 6y ago
  Macbook and Macbook Fan.
layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
Lol. This guy sounds super salty.
daneel_w 6y ago
After reading this article I can't help wondering if the writer was "sponsored"...
leroy_masochist 6y ago
Does anyone know if the Rosetta issue described in the review would affect the performance of a Parallels instance running MS Office products? Maybe this question would be better phrased, does Parallels fall into the category of software that runs poorly on the new M1 chipset?
- bxk1 6y ago
  > does Parallels fall into the category of software that runs poorly on the new M1 chipset? It does for most use cases where you want to run images meant for different CPU architectures, like amd64. It shouldn't if you want to run something meant for the same CPU architecture, which isn't going to be a thing for a long long time.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    > It shouldn't if you want to run something meant for the same CPU architecture, which isn't going to be a thing for a long long time. Why not? If you consider there are 3 main desktop OSes, these are Windows, macOS, and Linux. MacOS and Linux already work on ARM64. For Windows software, CrossOver for Mac runs on M1.
- wila 6y ago
  Rosetta cannot be used for virtualisation, only for macOS apps.
mcculley 6y ago
That there is still not an LTE modem indicates some kind of market failure. Is this because of the Qualcomm patents?
- the_lucifer 6y ago
  Qualcomm's payments IIRC are also dependent on the final device cost so I'd think that the payments can get absurdly expensive. I'm hoping that cellular modems might come to the Mac when Apple gets their in-house modems ready
  - mcculley 6y ago
    That is my guess as well, but I haven't found any official word on this. It is ridiculous that I can buy a Dell with an LTE modem and not a MacBook Pro.
- justincormack 6y ago
  If Apple were to ship one it would be in a later release. Eg the iPad didn’t have one as Apple don’t like to reveal info about models which you have to do for FCC approval.
d3mon 6y ago
The limitation on just one external monitor at a time beggars belief in a Pro device. App crashes were not reported elsewhere. Aside from some subjective commentary, there's a genuinely different side shown in the review.
- mikelward 6y ago
  From what I read, some recent Lenovo laptops -- such as the Flex 5 -- don't support external displays at all! I had my wallet open and everything.
- Betelgeuse90 6y ago
  I thought maybe you can use two with the lid closed, but looks like that's a nope: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-macbook-closed-lid-dual-monitors.2269530/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-macbook-closed-lid-d...
Speednet 6y ago
Lots of back-and-forth on specs and compatibility, yet somehow the complete lack of privacy outed last week has suddenly vanished from the discussion. There might be something to that "Apple-Chosen Reviewer" thing. Perhaps Apple's best technology is the one that mutes all their shifty acts.
alisonkisk 6y ago
> During Covid-19, I know many people using their LTE-infused notebooks so they don’t have to compete with their kids for bandwidth. That's just bizarre and makes me question this reviewer's comprehension of technology. He doesn't understand hotspots? He things hes maxing out a home wifi+ISP connection but LTE can handle the load?
- viktorcode 6y ago
  The complaint in the article is about lack of 5G specifically, not just any mobile connection.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  I think it’s not uncommon for 4G to be faster than home broadband for people outside major areas. If you use 4G not only do they get a faster connection in the first place but they also avoid contending with other family users also on the slower broadband. Doesn’t seem bizarre or technically ignorant to me?
bloopernova 6y ago
I realize that this is probably the wrong thread for this, but I wonder if the Apple Silicon will have an end result of more architectural diversity in web/cloud apps? In other words, will people continue to use Macbooks to develop on? Therefore forcing things like Docker to switch to more architecture-agnostic ways of running? Or will people just use more remote VMs and container services? I am also wondering how much of a hold the OS X UI has on people. Because I really enjoy using iTerm2, and having Homebrew and all the UNIX applications just a terminal away is great. They're also closer than the Microsoft WSL way of doing things because you don't have 2 home directories, multiple network addresses like you do with the latest WSL2 in Windows 10. (not to diss WSL2, it's great, and can run many things much closer to a true Linux/UNIX "experience") I guess, along with winning the lottery and a pony, I want the underpinning of Linux, the games and Microsoft development effort of Windows, and the UI of OS X.
bogomipz 6y ago
I have a tangential question. Would there be any technical reason why Apple only released a 13" version of the Macbook pro with the new M1 chip and not any of the larger versions of the Macbook pro or would this likely be a 'refresh schedule" consideration?
- forslar 6y ago
  I think that the pandemic may have had something to do with the lack of expanding, given that they already had the architecture in place to do 13" MBPs and MBAs. I think that next we will see more of the higher-end 4-port MBPs and/or perhaps with that also the refresh scheduled 14-inch ones.
  - bogomipz 6y ago
    Interesting yeah that would make sense. The thing that I thought made this all all the more conspicuous was that they are basically launching this at the beginning of the holiday buying season so there's missed opportunity with people who like/want larger format MBPs. Cheers.
- theklr 6y ago
  This is to calm the market. Granted they went for their highest selling macs, so that’s a pretty big sign of confidence. This is also the lowest risk as far as their SoC design goes as nothing in the iOS/iPadOS goes past 16GB. Being able to daisy chain multiple screens or handle eGPUs are more demanding. I suspect March-June well get a few more refreshes and then fall something major.
darksaints 6y ago
It is super fucking hilarious to see the responses of HN's Apple Cult when a non-fellating post arrives on the front page.
throwinawaysoon 6y ago
Honestly, he's saying may be not let the hype get to you and buy the device's first iteration outright with known incompatibilities. is that so bad? Everything Apple does is automatically a huge plus for some people. may be, just may be, it's not for everyone
gbourne 6y ago
I've been wondering about the sent from heaven M1 reviews. I don't have the MacBook Pro yet, but planning on picking up on on Black Friday. Because of this article I've started to put my must have apps list together. Apps like Chrome, VS Code, Node (and the packages I use), Hyper Terminal, Slack, Postman, and Edge (just kidding). I've compared my list against this wonderful site: https://isapplesiliconready.com/ https://isapplesiliconready.com/ Overall, my only concern is Postman.
specialist 6y ago
TLDR: 5G will replace wifi. The 5G bulletpoint will become true. Probably sooner than later. Listening to Horace Dediu (Asymco) alerted me to 5G's impact. (I just didn't care enough, so wasn't paying attention.) The 5x5 CriticalPath episode recapping the iPhone 12 launch. I don't understand Dediu's analysis well enough to repeat it. But the punchline is Apple put everyone on notice that 5G is the next thing. The rationale is something about renewed partnerships with carriers, the return of carrier discounts, and giving the 5G guy so much time on the soapbox. FWIW, I definitely want cell baseband in my future laptops. Using my phone or pad hotspot sucks.
- guitarbill 6y ago
  unless i can somehow set up a 5g local network, i don't see how this is true? there's got to be a million if not a billion wifi networks for various different applications (like gopros). i have nothing that speaks 5g yet, no use-case for it, and even if i did, no meaningful coverage. carriers might be hyping it, but it doesn't make it so. DSL is still a thing in some places. 1gig ethernet, 2.4 GHz wifi, and various other "old" protocols are still widely used. this will not change quickly, because they work. 5g currently doesn't. maybe this will improve in the next 5 years, but who knows if there isn't something better then? i don't even buy the premise that equipment with a current 5g modem is future-proof. this is what happens when technology becomes a marketing tool, and not something that solves a genuine problem (or the biggest problem i currently face). maybe it'd be different if i lived in a country with poor internet infrastructure, with 5g being my only hope for decent speeds? but even that is more of a prayer, because if decent wired internet doesn't exist, will decent 5g coverage exist? (by that i mean coverage with meaningfully faster speed and latency than LTE, with a choice of providers for competition?)
  - specialist 6y ago
    Really good point. Hmmm. Maybe I should have wrote "5G will displace wifi". If I had to guess, Apple's notion for personal networking will be multi protocol. Bluetooth, wifi, 5G, UWB, NFC, etc. In combination. And Dediu's point is the 5G will finally be able a viable wifi replacement for a large fraction of Apple users. Like all tech, wifi will peak, plateau, then long slow decline. Question related to your point: Will self-hosted 5G be an option? eg Will Microsoft be able to (feasibly) run their own campus 5G network? Zero trust networking and software defined networks, for both consumer and enterprises, will definitely become the preferred solution. So me running my own LAN becomes less important. In that world, maybe self-hosting becomes "virtual".
teilo 6y ago
Typical Forbes Tech Council drivel. Alarmist, tunnel vision, contrived. I'm surprised it didn't start with "Apple has a serious problem with the M1." Nothing written here is surprising. The M1 models have been out for just over a week. No one expected all apps to work perfectly on a completely new architecture, but the fact that Rosetta 2 works SO well is extraordinary. As it is, MS Office is already native in the beta channel. So is Chrome and Firefox. Many popular apps were released native on day one. Microsoft has released a native OpenJDK 16 port. This is a remarkable level of adoption after just one week. Lack of USB ports? How is that different from the existing models they replace, which, I might add, have far worse batter performance? These are not replacements for the top-tier pro machines. This was intentional. Apple intended these machines to be the foundation upon which the entire line is built, and to give developers the motivation to port their apps. And they are. Quickly. I just setup a new Air for the chairman of the board at my company. He keeps texting me, raving about the thing. The best Mac he's ever owned (and he's owned nearly every Macbook there ever was).

84 points by d3mon 6y ago

chmaynard 6y ago

There's nothing of any value in this diatribe disguised as a review.

hyperbovine 6y ago
The same could be said for this comment. His article is full of concrete reasons why you might not want to buy an M1 right now. Would you care to address even a single one?
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  The article is full of concrete reasons not to buy an M1 if you use Microsoft and Adobe software. I suspect the number of Edge users in the Mac ecosystem is not high. Acrobat might be more of a problem, but it's still not quite the mainstream MacBook Air use case. The question isn't so much "Do these apps work?" but "When will they work?" MS and Adobe will be distributing Apple Silicon builds within the year - most likely within six months, and possibly by early next year. So these are showstopper problems if you need these applications on a Mac right now, but not so much if you're planning to wait and see a while. Honestly, Catalina and Big Sur broke far more applications than the M1 move did. If you're doing the prudent thing and running a year or so behind it's very likely there will be fewer problems. So ultimately there aren't many reasons beyond novelty and a percentage of natural replacement why most people who lean heavily on Office and Acrobat are going to need a Macbook Air right now.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
S_A_P 6y ago
Agreed. Looks like he was seeking out apps that don’t work on day one(could be os related or Rosetta related because a lot of Mac software isn’t fully ported to Big Sur yet) Reviving the non touch screen argument, which is 100% subjective and basically written with vitriol towards the Apple marketing. Click bait hit piece.
dagw 6y ago
Completely disagree. This is the first review I've seen that talks about performance of 'obscure' third party apps that might never see a native port. That's very valuable to some people.

coldtea 6y ago

He had an angle (pass for now) and stuck to it admirably...

PostThisTooFast 6y ago

It seems like a long road to native apps on the Mac. It's been hard enough just to get plug-in vendors and everyone else to go to 64-bit. Now a whole new architecture? But this is ridiculous: "What I’ve never comprehended is why Apple supports touch displays on iPhones, Watch, and iPad, but not on the MacBook." Because touchscreens on computers are STUPID. People use computers because they need PRECISION, and they don't want a dumbed-down UI with giant buttons taking up the whole screen so you can poke at them with your fat fingers... while blocking your view of the UI with your hand. The computer has a trackpad and keyboard. USE THEM. So dumb.

3jckd 6y ago

In other news, gen-1 device is good but not perfect yet.

unglaublich 6y ago
gen-1 device, marketed as gen-... 10 device? bearing the well known name of an established product.
- theklr 6y ago
  How’s it marketed as a gen 10 device? They didn’t remove the higher tiered macs still running intel in the pros. The airs they blow past their previous versions. MacBook has been the same since power pc. Also has the same non first party issues as the previous on it day zero devices. This is not new for legacy Apple users.

mensetmanusman 6y ago

“ I don’t think it can keep, made claims it doesn’t explain during announcements, and that the Apple-chosen reviewers didn’t find the warts I found in the first two hours of review.” A good reminder of how everyone has an agenda when they are writing. A good early M1 user experience will be had by those entirely in the apple software ecosystem. If you are venturing out of the ecosystem, use a good Remote Desktop application and a powerful plugged in computer to get the best of both worlds.

bstar77 6y ago

"Apple-chosen press" is referenced in almost every paragraph of this article if you are wondering what the author's intent is here. I'll sum up his unique complaints... Lots of old Microsoft specific software still doesn't work well at the moment. If you are an enthusiastic Edge browser user, this laptop probably isn't for you.

daviddever23box 6y ago
Chrome works better on M1 / Big Sur than it ever did on Intel / Catalina; Edge will catch up in due time. Firefox is extremely buggy right now, even if it claims to be Universal (where art thou Rust tooling?), so perhaps the wait-and-see approach is right. On the MacBook Air I have here (8 GB RAM / 512 GB SSD), it’s quite clear that Apple is onto something here.
jmuguy 6y ago
This has gotta be the first time I’ve heard of anyone using Edge on macOS... I mean, why?
- rasputin243 6y ago
  Cross-browser testing of web apps would be one use case.
  - leadingthenet 6y ago
    Edge has the same engine as Chrome, so no real reason to test both in most circumstances.
- mgkimsal 6y ago
  the reviewer mentioned word and excel and teams - very likely they're "all in" on the ms office suite, except for... running it on windows.
- srik 6y ago
  Going off the rest of his stack, probably corporate reasons.

mikl 6y ago

It should hardly come as a surprise to anyone with just a little technical knowledge, that when you switch to a completely new system architecture, 3rd party apps do not all work perfectly from day one. Apple did not promise anything wrt. 3rd party apps, so talking about “broken promise” is downright dishonest. But that’s just the usual from the Forbes Contributor Network and Clown Car Testing Facility.

the_lucifer 6y ago
And it's sad because Apple has actually provided a very robust translation layer in Rosetta 2 Every single day we hear of at least one well known app adding support for M1 Macs. It's all a matter of time. I'd wager we'd have a robust ecosystem of apps once the Pro Macs launch (higher end 13" and the 16")
SloopJon 6y ago
> Apple did not promise anything wrt. 3rd party apps Of course they did: "With the introduction of Rosetta 2, M1 and macOS Big Sur seamlessly run apps that haven't yet transitioned to Universal versions. So without updating, you can keep working on Fusion360 projects or reach the next level in your favorite game." Rosetta 2 (and Rosetta before it) may be an amazing technical accomplishment, but it's entirely fair for a reviewer to say it doesn't cut it for him. As funny as some of his choices are (Edge on a Mac, on purpose?), he's not reaching; this is what he uses everyday. It's also fair to point out that if your favorite game doesn't happen to be Rise of the Tomb Raider, your mileage may vary. I think the reviewer is a little unfair in his emphasis on "Apple-chosen" reviewers, but this frankly is the kind of thing I look for. Five-star reviews are rarely as useful to me as three-star reviews.

kowlo 6y ago

I expected fewer third party applications to work with Apple's transition to M1. Rosetta 2 has been a pleasant surprise...

xiwenc 6y ago

Two highlights for me that were useful: 1) keep expectations low in terms of compatibility. Most non apple apps will take time before they are ported to run natively on M1 2) related to point 1, the great battery life being marketed is not applicable if your apps arsenal is not native yet. These two might sound trivial to some but i did not think of them initially. I was ready to get the M1 if there’s a good deal next weeks. But now i’m not sure. What are your thoughts?

mirthflat83 6y ago
It’s not that hard really. Just look up if the apps you’re planning planning to use has battery or compatibility issues. https://isapplesiliconready.com/ https://isapplesiliconready.com/ I personally have not experienced any issues and the M1 is a marvel. Also, the return window is through January. I sure as hell am not going to return mine.
S_A_P 6y ago
To point 1- some native Mac apps are not Big Sur compatible yet. It could be 2 separate issues. I held off from upgrading to Big Sur on my audio/daw iMac Pro for this reason. 2- claim seems slightly dubious as it depends on the app. Some translated software is more cpu intensive than others. So maybe? Just like the native stuff will be.
- ianai 6y ago
  I’ve used some non optimized stuff and it didn’t seem to hit the battery. I’d be curious if people are tracking this somewhere.
- qppo 6y ago
  If you're doing audio production you should never upgrade MacOS immediately. I get almost as many emails from developers telling me not to as I get notifications from Apple telling me to upgrade. This has been true for at least the last 15 years, MacOS upgrades always screw something up. Usually iLok
  - 6y ago

uvesten 6y ago

Considering the software this reviewer focuses on, he can’t have much fun using a computer ever, and it shows.

lode 6y ago
In my 19 years of using Macs, I’ve never even heard of WinZip for Mac. Sure, I’ve used 3rd party compression tools for formats like 7Zip or bz2, but why you’d want to run WinZip on macOS today is beyond me.

CyberRabbi 6y ago

I was also under the impression from apple’s announcements that Rosetta 2 had much higher compatibility and stability. I absolutely can’t have critical applications like Skype or office crash on me.

pookieinc 6y ago

| Want assured software compatibility and performance How has the experience been for software developers across the board? Would love to hear personal accounts since all I'm finding is very generic articles like this one (talking about fan speed, performance charts, etc. but nothing specific targeting specialist areas)

dan1234 6y ago
Docker and Android emulators aren’t currently working, which is probably the biggest thing keeping me from buying. I don’t expect them to be broken for too long. x86 windows virtualisation is probably going to be the biggest issue for most people, and I don’t see working (maybe wine + qemu, but not full os).

OzzyB 6y ago

To paraphrase: > New chipset with new architecture means old apps won't run or will be slow Wow, you don't say. I been watching a few review videos[0] (not sure if they're from the "Apple-Choosen Press") and the results are absolutely astonishing. But the thing is, this shouldn't be surprising. This is the final form of the Apple Ethos of full vertical integration, from OS all the way down to (now) the frikking processor. I think they're afraid, and I don't care if my new Apple M1 Macbook doesn't run Office well, it's Logic/FinalCut/etc. that matters to me and most people. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXgLBa5jgr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXgLBa5jgr8

lmilcin 6y ago

I am personally not buying MackBook for other reasons (I want to be master of my own machine and I am willing to pay costs of maintaining Linux on it, I hate shallow keyboard and no function keys). The only reason against M1 itself I can think of is the tight grip Apple is going to have over entire stack (including memory). They will be creating all possible configurations and you are going to have to pay whatever premium Apple thinks they are able to impose on you which, extrapolating from the past, is going to be hefty. But, I think M1 is amazing piece of technology and would switch in no time if not for other reasons. I also think competition is going to take a hint and we can expect more of this in the future.

themgt 6y ago

This review is hilariously bad and biased ("no touchscreen or 5G!"), but the app compatibility is an expected chicken-or-egg issue with early adopters. The point I would make is you have to weigh the app experience in Nov 2020 against your expected experience for the rest of the life of the machine. I know people who've kept Macs running for nearly a decade (e.g. 2011 Macbook Air) and I'd strongly suspect 5 years from now a 2020 M1 Mac will be a lot more futureproof and app-compatible than a 2020 Intel Mac. If your main concern is running Zoom and OneNote for the next 6 months, maybe sit out M1 for now.

Jonnax 6y ago
Why would a review be biased if they want 5G or a touchscreen in their laptop? Those are features of other laptops. And Apple already ships the technogy to support both.
- closeparen 6y ago
  This is sort of like complaining about the passenger capacity of a 911 or the cornering on a minivan. You expect a review to describe how good something is at being what it intends to be, not how the reviewer prefers an entirely different style.
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    People can wish for things within creations that the creators never imagined or considered inappropriate. Which is why mod-ability is a nice escape hatch. Sadly Apple has rarely supported or encouraged that in their hardware.
ianai 6y ago
Apple shows no signs towards being interested in selling a touch screen laptop. They steer people to their iPads for that and have indicated otherwise for their laptops. Rightly or wrongly.
- othercharles 6y ago

CalChris 6y ago

A few Pro features Apple could add to the MacBook Pro: ECC, ZFS, function keys Yeah, function keys like on the Air. I don't know anyone who likes the Touch Bar. I'd like to get a Pro but the Air is very very good and I don't find anything that I really value on the Pro. Yes, the Pro is faster than the Air but the Air is fast and faster apparently requires a fan.

bstar77 6y ago
The pro is not any faster, it just has a fan that kicks in that prevents the machine from throttling as quickly. Someone who buys a PC with a water cooler isn't buying a machine that's faster than someone buying one with an air cooler. I realize there's a nuance here.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  Throttling means slowing down. Not-throttling means going faster.
  - withinboredom 6y ago
    > Not-throttling means going faster. No, it means not going slower. You don't go faster by not going slower.
- chongli 6y ago
  From the reviews on YouTube that I’ve seen, the fan on the Pro is inaudible all the time, even after running Cinebench in a loop for 30 mins. The reviewer was able to conclude that the fan was actually doing something, since the benchmark score held steady over those multiple consecutive runs whereas the score of the Air dropped after about ten minutes of sustained load. I’m sure the Pro has the same throttling logic as the Air since they’re identical apart from the fan and case/peripherals but it’s going to be very difficult to get it to throttle. I would think you’d need to run a microbenchmark of vector instructions in a very tight loop just to get the fan to spin fast enough to be audible. Under normal use it may never happen unless the fan fails.
- 6y ago

grey-area 6y ago

This is a review from someone who uses Microsoft Edge, Outlook, and Adobe Reader on a Mac. Those are very unusual choices nowadays for Mac software, so I don't think this applies to most Mac users considering upgrading.

bstar77 6y ago
I think I finally convinced my wife to stop using Acrobat Reader for Mac, which performs and looks like a java swing app. I don't know why she refused to use Preview for viewing PDFs, but I think some people just get set in their ways. That said, these people should not be writing technical reviews for major news organizations.
- soapdog 6y ago
  I had to use Acrobat Reader on a Mac to work with a book publisher because the comments they were attaching to the manuscript didn't work the same on Apple Preview. PDFs don't behave exactly the same everywhere for things that goes beyond just reading documents. For example, I had a reply on the PDF that was visible on Preview but vanished when you tried to read on Acrobat Reader, that caused a lot of trouble with the publisher that claimed I didn't answer... YMMV with regarding to these features and them working across apps.
Closi 6y ago
Outlook isn’t a weird software choice to be fair, I’ve never found another email application that comes close if you are a heavy user. Adobe reader and edge... I agree have better alternatives that come shipped with Mac.
- grey-area 6y ago
  Sure I think Outlook is fairly widely used in corp environments, though I’d be surprised to find many such environments who use outlook purchasing or supporting mac laptops for their users. There are cheaper and perfectly capable windows machines for office work. So it is an unusual choice on an Apple laptop, but also I expect it to be supported in time, and it is unsurprising that it is not amongst the first apps ported to a new architecture.

crb 6y ago

This device, and the non-Touch Bar "MacBook Escape" before it, succeed or fail based on what you think "Pro" means. John Gruber thinks when Apple says "Pro" they mean "deluxe" or "nicer". (See https://daringfireball.net/2015/11/the_ipad_pro https://daringfireball.net/2015/11/the_ipad_pro for example.) You can argue that this could have been avoided by calling this particular device the MacBook. But that might have made people think it was the default choice, where Apple probably expects you to start with the Air. Naming is hard.

alisonkisk 6y ago
Apple trashed the "Macbook" reputation with the previous generation of intentionally crippled 1-port (including charging!) machines. Now they are stuck with a 13" pro that stopped being Pro.
- tehwebguy 6y ago
  The single port MacBook is my favorite computer to date! It’s not for everyone, including you obviously, but I’m not sure what reputation would have to do with that. Just different computers with different purposes.
jamil7 6y ago
I guess a lot of it has to do with aspirational marketing. It's the same with DSLRs or sporty versions of cars. If you would benefit from more available peripherals and monitors, a bigger screen and more memory (pretty much most professional computer people I can think of would benefit from these) then this likely isn't the machine for you.
mikelward 6y ago
"MacBook Plus"? "MacBook Premium"?
kurko 6y ago
Macbook and Macbook Fan.

layoutIfNeeded 6y ago

Lol. This guy sounds super salty.

daneel_w 6y ago

After reading this article I can't help wondering if the writer was "sponsored"...

leroy_masochist 6y ago

Does anyone know if the Rosetta issue described in the review would affect the performance of a Parallels instance running MS Office products? Maybe this question would be better phrased, does Parallels fall into the category of software that runs poorly on the new M1 chipset?

bxk1 6y ago
> does Parallels fall into the category of software that runs poorly on the new M1 chipset? It does for most use cases where you want to run images meant for different CPU architectures, like amd64. It shouldn't if you want to run something meant for the same CPU architecture, which isn't going to be a thing for a long long time.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  > It shouldn't if you want to run something meant for the same CPU architecture, which isn't going to be a thing for a long long time. Why not? If you consider there are 3 main desktop OSes, these are Windows, macOS, and Linux. MacOS and Linux already work on ARM64. For Windows software, CrossOver for Mac runs on M1.
wila 6y ago
Rosetta cannot be used for virtualisation, only for macOS apps.

mcculley 6y ago

That there is still not an LTE modem indicates some kind of market failure. Is this because of the Qualcomm patents?

the_lucifer 6y ago
Qualcomm's payments IIRC are also dependent on the final device cost so I'd think that the payments can get absurdly expensive. I'm hoping that cellular modems might come to the Mac when Apple gets their in-house modems ready
- mcculley 6y ago
  That is my guess as well, but I haven't found any official word on this. It is ridiculous that I can buy a Dell with an LTE modem and not a MacBook Pro.
justincormack 6y ago
If Apple were to ship one it would be in a later release. Eg the iPad didn’t have one as Apple don’t like to reveal info about models which you have to do for FCC approval.

d3mon 6y ago

The limitation on just one external monitor at a time beggars belief in a Pro device. App crashes were not reported elsewhere. Aside from some subjective commentary, there's a genuinely different side shown in the review.

mikelward 6y ago
From what I read, some recent Lenovo laptops -- such as the Flex 5 -- don't support external displays at all! I had my wallet open and everything.
Betelgeuse90 6y ago
I thought maybe you can use two with the lid closed, but looks like that's a nope: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-macbook-closed-lid-dual-monitors.2269530/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-macbook-closed-lid-d...

Speednet 6y ago

Lots of back-and-forth on specs and compatibility, yet somehow the complete lack of privacy outed last week has suddenly vanished from the discussion. There might be something to that "Apple-Chosen Reviewer" thing. Perhaps Apple's best technology is the one that mutes all their shifty acts.

alisonkisk 6y ago

> During Covid-19, I know many people using their LTE-infused notebooks so they don’t have to compete with their kids for bandwidth. That's just bizarre and makes me question this reviewer's comprehension of technology. He doesn't understand hotspots? He things hes maxing out a home wifi+ISP connection but LTE can handle the load?

viktorcode 6y ago
The complaint in the article is about lack of 5G specifically, not just any mobile connection.
chrisseaton 6y ago
I think it’s not uncommon for 4G to be faster than home broadband for people outside major areas. If you use 4G not only do they get a faster connection in the first place but they also avoid contending with other family users also on the slower broadband. Doesn’t seem bizarre or technically ignorant to me?

bloopernova 6y ago

I realize that this is probably the wrong thread for this, but I wonder if the Apple Silicon will have an end result of more architectural diversity in web/cloud apps? In other words, will people continue to use Macbooks to develop on? Therefore forcing things like Docker to switch to more architecture-agnostic ways of running? Or will people just use more remote VMs and container services? I am also wondering how much of a hold the OS X UI has on people. Because I really enjoy using iTerm2, and having Homebrew and all the UNIX applications just a terminal away is great. They're also closer than the Microsoft WSL way of doing things because you don't have 2 home directories, multiple network addresses like you do with the latest WSL2 in Windows 10. (not to diss WSL2, it's great, and can run many things much closer to a true Linux/UNIX "experience") I guess, along with winning the lottery and a pony, I want the underpinning of Linux, the games and Microsoft development effort of Windows, and the UI of OS X.

bogomipz 6y ago

I have a tangential question. Would there be any technical reason why Apple only released a 13" version of the Macbook pro with the new M1 chip and not any of the larger versions of the Macbook pro or would this likely be a 'refresh schedule" consideration?

forslar 6y ago
I think that the pandemic may have had something to do with the lack of expanding, given that they already had the architecture in place to do 13" MBPs and MBAs. I think that next we will see more of the higher-end 4-port MBPs and/or perhaps with that also the refresh scheduled 14-inch ones.
- bogomipz 6y ago
  Interesting yeah that would make sense. The thing that I thought made this all all the more conspicuous was that they are basically launching this at the beginning of the holiday buying season so there's missed opportunity with people who like/want larger format MBPs. Cheers.
theklr 6y ago
This is to calm the market. Granted they went for their highest selling macs, so that’s a pretty big sign of confidence. This is also the lowest risk as far as their SoC design goes as nothing in the iOS/iPadOS goes past 16GB. Being able to daisy chain multiple screens or handle eGPUs are more demanding. I suspect March-June well get a few more refreshes and then fall something major.

darksaints 6y ago

It is super fucking hilarious to see the responses of HN's Apple Cult when a non-fellating post arrives on the front page.

throwinawaysoon 6y ago

Honestly, he's saying may be not let the hype get to you and buy the device's first iteration outright with known incompatibilities. is that so bad? Everything Apple does is automatically a huge plus for some people. may be, just may be, it's not for everyone

gbourne 6y ago

I've been wondering about the sent from heaven M1 reviews. I don't have the MacBook Pro yet, but planning on picking up on on Black Friday. Because of this article I've started to put my must have apps list together. Apps like Chrome, VS Code, Node (and the packages I use), Hyper Terminal, Slack, Postman, and Edge (just kidding). I've compared my list against this wonderful site: https://isapplesiliconready.com/ https://isapplesiliconready.com/ Overall, my only concern is Postman.

specialist 6y ago

TLDR: 5G will replace wifi. The 5G bulletpoint will become true. Probably sooner than later. Listening to Horace Dediu (Asymco) alerted me to 5G's impact. (I just didn't care enough, so wasn't paying attention.) The 5x5 CriticalPath episode recapping the iPhone 12 launch. I don't understand Dediu's analysis well enough to repeat it. But the punchline is Apple put everyone on notice that 5G is the next thing. The rationale is something about renewed partnerships with carriers, the return of carrier discounts, and giving the 5G guy so much time on the soapbox. FWIW, I definitely want cell baseband in my future laptops. Using my phone or pad hotspot sucks.

guitarbill 6y ago
unless i can somehow set up a 5g local network, i don't see how this is true? there's got to be a million if not a billion wifi networks for various different applications (like gopros). i have nothing that speaks 5g yet, no use-case for it, and even if i did, no meaningful coverage. carriers might be hyping it, but it doesn't make it so. DSL is still a thing in some places. 1gig ethernet, 2.4 GHz wifi, and various other "old" protocols are still widely used. this will not change quickly, because they work. 5g currently doesn't. maybe this will improve in the next 5 years, but who knows if there isn't something better then? i don't even buy the premise that equipment with a current 5g modem is future-proof. this is what happens when technology becomes a marketing tool, and not something that solves a genuine problem (or the biggest problem i currently face). maybe it'd be different if i lived in a country with poor internet infrastructure, with 5g being my only hope for decent speeds? but even that is more of a prayer, because if decent wired internet doesn't exist, will decent 5g coverage exist? (by that i mean coverage with meaningfully faster speed and latency than LTE, with a choice of providers for competition?)
- specialist 6y ago
  Really good point. Hmmm. Maybe I should have wrote "5G will displace wifi". If I had to guess, Apple's notion for personal networking will be multi protocol. Bluetooth, wifi, 5G, UWB, NFC, etc. In combination. And Dediu's point is the 5G will finally be able a viable wifi replacement for a large fraction of Apple users. Like all tech, wifi will peak, plateau, then long slow decline. Question related to your point: Will self-hosted 5G be an option? eg Will Microsoft be able to (feasibly) run their own campus 5G network? Zero trust networking and software defined networks, for both consumer and enterprises, will definitely become the preferred solution. So me running my own LAN becomes less important. In that world, maybe self-hosting becomes "virtual".

teilo 6y ago

Typical Forbes Tech Council drivel. Alarmist, tunnel vision, contrived. I'm surprised it didn't start with "Apple has a serious problem with the M1." Nothing written here is surprising. The M1 models have been out for just over a week. No one expected all apps to work perfectly on a completely new architecture, but the fact that Rosetta 2 works SO well is extraordinary. As it is, MS Office is already native in the beta channel. So is Chrome and Firefox. Many popular apps were released native on day one. Microsoft has released a native OpenJDK 16 port. This is a remarkable level of adoption after just one week. Lack of USB ports? How is that different from the existing models they replace, which, I might add, have far worse batter performance? These are not replacements for the top-tier pro machines. This was intentional. Apple intended these machines to be the foundation upon which the entire line is built, and to give developers the motivation to port their apps. And they are. Quickly. I just setup a new Air for the chairman of the board at my company. He keeps texting me, raving about the thing. The best Mac he's ever owned (and he's owned nearly every Macbook there ever was).