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I was with you until this bit: > This is also why I'm not so enthused by USB-C... Please elaborate?

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
USB-A has become practically a universal standard for DC charging, and USB-A drives and peripherals are ubiquitious. USB-C breaks all of that. It's definitely smaller, and that's great, but I'll take a slightly slicker laptop that doesn't make me carry around an adapter.
- crooked-v 6y ago
  You could have said exactly the same thing with USB itself was first introduced, though. And lots of people did: there were endless, massive complaints about the first iMac.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Right—I totally see both sides here! Some transitions are absolutely necessary, and worth the trade-off. Part of the problem in my view is that, if you're going to make these sorts of switches, you ought to be planning ahead 30+ years. If you told me USB-C was going to be the last iteration of the format (at least for several decades), I'd be okay with some weirdness in the interim. By contrast, if you told me the USB forum was going to introduce USB-D in 2030, I would absolutely not be willing to put up with this.
    - jacobolus 6y ago
      USB type A/B connectors lasted for >10 years, but were obviously inadequate for most recent devices (which is why there were mini and micro B types, a type A “superspeed” connector with an associated "extended" micro B type, alongside a large number of proprietary other connectors), without even mentioning the worst type A misfeature of appearing symmetrical at a glance but not being symmetrical. Keeping type A/B as the default for another 10+ years would be horrible. There is no apparent reason why USB Type C connectors will not last significantly longer. They support a much wider range of use cases (collapsing what were previously at least 4 or 5 different connector types into 1, and using the same connector at both ends), and were explicitly designed to be future proof. The people involved in the design were thinking decades ahead. It is unfortunate that many device makers (e.g. people making power strips) have taken a while to adopt Type C. But in another 5 or 10 years the transition will just be a memory. At most you’ll need an occasional dongle for your legacy hardware. The biggest future competitor for USB type C plugs is various kinds of wireless transmission.
      - crooked-v 6y ago
        USB4 should help somewhat here by effectively being a streamlined subset of the initial USB-C + Thunderbolt 3 specs, as well as finally giving a clear definition for how hubs should work (in my eyes, the one fatal flaw of USB-C so far).
- freeone3000 6y ago
  The other side being USB mini-B, though, has problems. The mini-B connectors are notoriously fragile. C is clearly a win here. Using the same connector for both ends is clearly a win here. And moreover: laptops can and do (and imo should) have both A and C ports. So USB-C isn't as disastrous as a piano, which can only have one key interface.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Mini-B seemed to have an exceedingly short lifespan, even by tech standards. I have some mini-B gear, but micro-B seemed to quickly supersede mini-B. (Micro also has some fragility issues of its own, of course.)
dheera 6y ago
I hate USB-C with a passion -- the spec is a shitshow, some cables will catch on fire if used for PD, the connectors can be snapped off the PCB, as have happened to me pretty frequently, and the plugs are regularly made too damn long and are nice cantilevers. Everything is wrong about its design and ruggedness for consumer use. Consumer electronics needs to live upto higher standards than even military. One should be able to plug their phone into an external battery, shove the entire mess in their pocket, and go skiing. That's what consumer electronics should live upto. The cable housing should be supported snugly and firmly by the housing of the device, like one would do on a BNC connector, but on a smaller scale. The PCB shouldn't be taking all the torquing forces, as is currently the case.

USB-A has become practically a universal standard for DC charging, and USB-A drives and peripherals are ubiquitious. USB-C breaks all of that. It's definitely smaller, and that's great, but I'll take a slightly slicker laptop that doesn't make me carry around an adapter.

crooked-v 6y ago
You could have said exactly the same thing with USB itself was first introduced, though. And lots of people did: there were endless, massive complaints about the first iMac.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Right—I totally see both sides here! Some transitions are absolutely necessary, and worth the trade-off. Part of the problem in my view is that, if you're going to make these sorts of switches, you ought to be planning ahead 30+ years. If you told me USB-C was going to be the last iteration of the format (at least for several decades), I'd be okay with some weirdness in the interim. By contrast, if you told me the USB forum was going to introduce USB-D in 2030, I would absolutely not be willing to put up with this.
  - jacobolus 6y ago
    USB type A/B connectors lasted for >10 years, but were obviously inadequate for most recent devices (which is why there were mini and micro B types, a type A “superspeed” connector with an associated "extended" micro B type, alongside a large number of proprietary other connectors), without even mentioning the worst type A misfeature of appearing symmetrical at a glance but not being symmetrical. Keeping type A/B as the default for another 10+ years would be horrible. There is no apparent reason why USB Type C connectors will not last significantly longer. They support a much wider range of use cases (collapsing what were previously at least 4 or 5 different connector types into 1, and using the same connector at both ends), and were explicitly designed to be future proof. The people involved in the design were thinking decades ahead. It is unfortunate that many device makers (e.g. people making power strips) have taken a while to adopt Type C. But in another 5 or 10 years the transition will just be a memory. At most you’ll need an occasional dongle for your legacy hardware. The biggest future competitor for USB type C plugs is various kinds of wireless transmission.
    - crooked-v 6y ago
      USB4 should help somewhat here by effectively being a streamlined subset of the initial USB-C + Thunderbolt 3 specs, as well as finally giving a clear definition for how hubs should work (in my eyes, the one fatal flaw of USB-C so far).
freeone3000 6y ago
The other side being USB mini-B, though, has problems. The mini-B connectors are notoriously fragile. C is clearly a win here. Using the same connector for both ends is clearly a win here. And moreover: laptops can and do (and imo should) have both A and C ports. So USB-C isn't as disastrous as a piano, which can only have one key interface.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Mini-B seemed to have an exceedingly short lifespan, even by tech standards. I have some mini-B gear, but micro-B seemed to quickly supersede mini-B. (Micro also has some fragility issues of its own, of course.)

dheera 6y ago

I hate USB-C with a passion -- the spec is a shitshow, some cables will catch on fire if used for PD, the connectors can be snapped off the PCB, as have happened to me pretty frequently, and the plugs are regularly made too damn long and are nice cantilevers. Everything is wrong about its design and ruggedness for consumer use. Consumer electronics needs to live upto higher standards than even military. One should be able to plug their phone into an external battery, shove the entire mess in their pocket, and go skiing. That's what consumer electronics should live upto. The cable housing should be supported snugly and firmly by the housing of the device, like one would do on a BNC connector, but on a smaller scale. The PCB shouldn't be taking all the torquing forces, as is currently the case.