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Confirmation bias to the fourth power. A person just told you that an average truck of which you see plenty on the roads, does a couple thousand times the damag

Confirmation bias to the fourth power. A person just told you that an average truck of which you see plenty on the roads, does a couple thousand times the damage of a car and your response is: "Let's get all the cars of the road because a bicycle does no damage at all compared to cars"

TulliusCicero 6y ago
Nowhere did they suggest that they want to get rid of all cars ever. The principle that shifting traffic from cars to bikes saves money for the government is a sound one. There'll always be a need for cars for some things -- probably not gonna have ambulance bikes, and of course deliveries for anything big needs a car/truck -- but you can certainly reduce the need. Especially with ebikes making biking more convenient and accessible.
- hallway_monitor 6y ago
  I'll keep my car thanks
  - Dagger2 6y ago
    Most cyclists are also drivers, so yeah, I'd expect you to. Noone was telling you to get rid of your car. But not every journey needs to be done by car.
  - TulliusCicero 6y ago
    Americans moving to Tokyo largely give up cars and switch to public transport and walking. This isn't because there's a welcome committee of Japanese people shaming them out of driving; it's because driving works less well there, and public transit much better. The point isn't to individually shame unwilling people out of their cars. The point is to make biking a real, viable transportation mode for short/medium distance trips for most people in urban or suburban areas. It's entirely possible to do this with the right infrastructure. Once you do that, people will choose biking of their own accord, because it makes sense.
Someone 6y ago
Who says all? I’m just pointing out that there can be economic incentives for improving bicycle infrastructure. That isn’t an original idea. See for example https://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/ https://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/ (2009) Also, if in Google “50 ton 5-axle truck” I get trucks that I rarely see on roads in Europe. Reading https://www.jpisla.es/resources/Download+JPIsla+20130106+Pesos+maximos+de+los+camiones+comparativa+paises.pdf https://www.jpisla.es/resources/Download+JPIsla+20130106+Pes..., that’s because t most countries don’t allow them on roads.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  The usual limit is Europe is 44 tonnes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_goods_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_goods_vehicle https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/211948/simplified-guide-to-lorry-types-and-weights.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
- kelnos 6y ago
  A quick search suggests that a semi truck without trailer weighs between 10 and 25 tons[0]. Those are usually 3-axle, so that's between about 125 and 4800 units of damage. That's still a massive amount when compared to the 1 unit of damage for a sedan. Add an empty trailer and you get 35 tons (5 axles, 2400 units of damage). US max allowed is 80 tons, for a whopping 65,536 units of damage. I don't know how full they are, but I see 5-axle tractor-trailers on highways all the time in the US, and also locally doing last-mile deliveries to larger businesses like supermarkets and home improvement stores. I guess the differences in allowed weights might account for why US roads are often in worse shape than many in Europe, though I assume vastly different maintenance schedules play a large part as well. [0] https://www.tcsfuel.com/blog/truck-weight-classification/ https://www.tcsfuel.com/blog/truck-weight-classification/
  - wiredfool 6y ago
    No, a ton is 2000 lbs or 1000kg, you’re using ton as 1000 lbs. Max US ordinary large truck loading is 80k lbs, or 40 tons. (Source, I trained as a civil engineer. Units in us practice were all over the place, but kip was generally the one that got used the most.)

TulliusCicero 6y ago

Nowhere did they suggest that they want to get rid of all cars ever. The principle that shifting traffic from cars to bikes saves money for the government is a sound one. There'll always be a need for cars for some things -- probably not gonna have ambulance bikes, and of course deliveries for anything big needs a car/truck -- but you can certainly reduce the need. Especially with ebikes making biking more convenient and accessible.

hallway_monitor 6y ago
I'll keep my car thanks
- Dagger2 6y ago
  Most cyclists are also drivers, so yeah, I'd expect you to. Noone was telling you to get rid of your car. But not every journey needs to be done by car.
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  Americans moving to Tokyo largely give up cars and switch to public transport and walking. This isn't because there's a welcome committee of Japanese people shaming them out of driving; it's because driving works less well there, and public transit much better. The point isn't to individually shame unwilling people out of their cars. The point is to make biking a real, viable transportation mode for short/medium distance trips for most people in urban or suburban areas. It's entirely possible to do this with the right infrastructure. Once you do that, people will choose biking of their own accord, because it makes sense.

Someone 6y ago

Who says all? I’m just pointing out that there can be economic incentives for improving bicycle infrastructure. That isn’t an original idea. See for example https://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/ https://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/ (2009) Also, if in Google “50 ton 5-axle truck” I get trucks that I rarely see on roads in Europe. Reading https://www.jpisla.es/resources/Download+JPIsla+20130106+Pesos+maximos+de+los+camiones+comparativa+paises.pdf https://www.jpisla.es/resources/Download+JPIsla+20130106+Pes..., that’s because t most countries don’t allow them on roads.

Symbiote 6y ago
The usual limit is Europe is 44 tonnes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_goods_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_goods_vehicle https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/211948/simplified-guide-to-lorry-types-and-weights.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
kelnos 6y ago
A quick search suggests that a semi truck without trailer weighs between 10 and 25 tons[0]. Those are usually 3-axle, so that's between about 125 and 4800 units of damage. That's still a massive amount when compared to the 1 unit of damage for a sedan. Add an empty trailer and you get 35 tons (5 axles, 2400 units of damage). US max allowed is 80 tons, for a whopping 65,536 units of damage. I don't know how full they are, but I see 5-axle tractor-trailers on highways all the time in the US, and also locally doing last-mile deliveries to larger businesses like supermarkets and home improvement stores. I guess the differences in allowed weights might account for why US roads are often in worse shape than many in Europe, though I assume vastly different maintenance schedules play a large part as well. [0] https://www.tcsfuel.com/blog/truck-weight-classification/ https://www.tcsfuel.com/blog/truck-weight-classification/
- wiredfool 6y ago
  No, a ton is 2000 lbs or 1000kg, you’re using ton as 1000 lbs. Max US ordinary large truck loading is 80k lbs, or 40 tons. (Source, I trained as a civil engineer. Units in us practice were all over the place, but kip was generally the one that got used the most.)