7 ms·

I've lived both in France and Australia. Australians love 4 wheels drive and bigger cars. In some cases it's justified for obvious reasons: rough environments

I've lived both in France and Australia. Australians love 4 wheels drive and bigger cars. In some cases it's justified for obvious reasons: rough environments with less infrastructure (bush, outback..). In other cases it is for softer reasons: a big camping culture, having a big car being a social status, towing your boat/jet ski etc. Also a few other points to consider: _ Australia enjoyed economic growth for a long time and Australians are rich. _ Fuel is cheap. According to www.globalpetrolprices.com right now a liter of gasoline is 0.74 euros compared to 1.33 for France _ The road infrastructure is more favourable for big cars than in Europe (big/plenty parking spots in most towns in Australia).

chrismorgan 6y ago
It’s funny: as an Australian that has visited the USA a couple of times (and never been to Europe), I’d repeat half of your points but for America rather than Australia. Some Australians certainly have large vehicles without good cause, but that number is nowhere near as big as in America. (Notwithstanding this, my Dad and I have discussed the concept of a ban or extreme tax on owning big vehicles unless you can justify why you need them (e.g. tradie or large family), with country dwellers immediately exempt for convenience.) And fuel is way cheaper in the USA than in Australia.
- anthonygd 6y ago
  I don't see why a large family would be an excuse. You need a large vehicle because you chose to need a large vehicle?
  - skrebbel 6y ago
    Most things I need, I need because I chose to need them.
  - javagram 6y ago
    A large family creates many future taxpayers. The state has an interest in subsidizing or at least not discouraging the creation of large families
    - mulmen 6y ago
      That seems like an oversimplification. Rural states receive more in benefits than they pay in federal tax. Large families by necessity are going to favor rural areas and states. It is not clear to me how a large family is a net tax benefit, there are too many other factors to consider. Having more people pay tax does not mean there is a net increase in tax collected.
      - sampo 6y ago
        > It is not clear to me how a large family is a net tax benefit Some of the children from a large rural families will move to cities and make careers that pay lots of taxes. Cities almost always have lower birthrates than countryside.
        mulmen 6y ago
        Yes, we need children. That's not a question. The question is if a single couple needs to produce so many children they drive a vehicle so massive is earns tax breaks.
        javagram 6y ago
        In this context, I assume a "large family" is 3 or 4 children (a 5 seat sedan cannot physically, legally fit 4 children and two parents, and due to the size of modern carseats it can be dicey or impossible to fit 3 of them in compact or midsize sedans even for a 3-child family). Even just maintaining replacement rate fertility requires an average of 2.1 children TFR, which means some families would need to have 3 or 4 children to get there since other families will have only 2 or 1 child.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - dschuler 6y ago
    In France, you end up paying a lower tax on your vehicle the more children you have, so a family with four children might pay the same taxes on a large diesel as a childless couple with a tiny gas car. I was trying to register my 3-cylinder 1.0 liter vehicle, just to find out I’d have to pay 1500 Euro tax for my gas guzzler. Ugh.
- rbg246 6y ago
  You need to go to Europe to see the little cars then. Australia has half price petrol to Europe and you see this in both car size and engine size. Also I have read (newspaper so who knows) that Australia allows far more fuel inefficient cars than Europe. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-11/australians-car-not-actually-using-less-fuel-research-shows/11594666 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-11/australians-car-not-a... But equally we have a lower percentage of diesel cars which is great for not dying https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170918093337.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170918093337.h...
oblio 6y ago
> towing your boat/jet ski etc. A 180-200 BHP sedan can tow a trailer quite easily. You don't need a big SUV for that.
- ungamedplayer 6y ago
  Spotted the "Victoria on the move" plates struggling to accelerate uphill in Queensland on a single lane road delaying the locals trip by an hour to get milk.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  horsepower is rarely the limiting factor for a sedan's towing capacity. a sedan's chassis is only designed to withstand accelerating and stopping its own weight (plus a margin for safety and internal cargo of a reasonable mass). you could probably get away with towing a jetski with a typical sedan, but anything much heavier than that risks bending the chassis. even if a car can tow something without deforming itself, the change in weight distribution can make for a very unsafe situation.
  - jashmatthews 6y ago
    Here in Australia and New Zealand we regularly tow boats with Aussie sedans like a Ford Falcon or Holden Commodore e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ford_Falcon_XR8_Ute_-_Malibu_Speed_Boat_(10606213524).jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ford_Falcon_XR8_Ute_...
    - justatdotin 6y ago
      https://www.nine.com.au/entertainment/viral/towing-boat-with-bike-darwin/272192fb-a945-4f9d-a64e-f8eb6c73cdc5 https://www.nine.com.au/entertainment/viral/towing-boat-with...
  - oblio 6y ago
    I've seen SOOOO many sedans and station wagons pulling trailers here in Europe. The Dutch are especially fond of camping with their trailers and I rarely see any of them using SUVs or anything bigger. What you're saying is likely not true.

chrismorgan 6y ago

It’s funny: as an Australian that has visited the USA a couple of times (and never been to Europe), I’d repeat half of your points but for America rather than Australia. Some Australians certainly have large vehicles without good cause, but that number is nowhere near as big as in America. (Notwithstanding this, my Dad and I have discussed the concept of a ban or extreme tax on owning big vehicles unless you can justify why you need them (e.g. tradie or large family), with country dwellers immediately exempt for convenience.) And fuel is way cheaper in the USA than in Australia.

anthonygd 6y ago
I don't see why a large family would be an excuse. You need a large vehicle because you chose to need a large vehicle?
- skrebbel 6y ago
  Most things I need, I need because I chose to need them.
- javagram 6y ago
  A large family creates many future taxpayers. The state has an interest in subsidizing or at least not discouraging the creation of large families
  - mulmen 6y ago
    That seems like an oversimplification. Rural states receive more in benefits than they pay in federal tax. Large families by necessity are going to favor rural areas and states. It is not clear to me how a large family is a net tax benefit, there are too many other factors to consider. Having more people pay tax does not mean there is a net increase in tax collected.
    - sampo 6y ago
      > It is not clear to me how a large family is a net tax benefit Some of the children from a large rural families will move to cities and make careers that pay lots of taxes. Cities almost always have lower birthrates than countryside.
      - mulmen 6y ago
        Yes, we need children. That's not a question. The question is if a single couple needs to produce so many children they drive a vehicle so massive is earns tax breaks.
        javagram 6y ago
        In this context, I assume a "large family" is 3 or 4 children (a 5 seat sedan cannot physically, legally fit 4 children and two parents, and due to the size of modern carseats it can be dicey or impossible to fit 3 of them in compact or midsize sedans even for a 3-child family). Even just maintaining replacement rate fertility requires an average of 2.1 children TFR, which means some families would need to have 3 or 4 children to get there since other families will have only 2 or 1 child.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- dschuler 6y ago
  In France, you end up paying a lower tax on your vehicle the more children you have, so a family with four children might pay the same taxes on a large diesel as a childless couple with a tiny gas car. I was trying to register my 3-cylinder 1.0 liter vehicle, just to find out I’d have to pay 1500 Euro tax for my gas guzzler. Ugh.
rbg246 6y ago
You need to go to Europe to see the little cars then. Australia has half price petrol to Europe and you see this in both car size and engine size. Also I have read (newspaper so who knows) that Australia allows far more fuel inefficient cars than Europe. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-11/australians-car-not-actually-using-less-fuel-research-shows/11594666 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-11/australians-car-not-a... But equally we have a lower percentage of diesel cars which is great for not dying https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170918093337.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170918093337.h...

oblio 6y ago

> towing your boat/jet ski etc. A 180-200 BHP sedan can tow a trailer quite easily. You don't need a big SUV for that.

ungamedplayer 6y ago
Spotted the "Victoria on the move" plates struggling to accelerate uphill in Queensland on a single lane road delaying the locals trip by an hour to get milk.
leetcrew 6y ago
horsepower is rarely the limiting factor for a sedan's towing capacity. a sedan's chassis is only designed to withstand accelerating and stopping its own weight (plus a margin for safety and internal cargo of a reasonable mass). you could probably get away with towing a jetski with a typical sedan, but anything much heavier than that risks bending the chassis. even if a car can tow something without deforming itself, the change in weight distribution can make for a very unsafe situation.
- jashmatthews 6y ago
  Here in Australia and New Zealand we regularly tow boats with Aussie sedans like a Ford Falcon or Holden Commodore e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ford_Falcon_XR8_Ute_-_Malibu_Speed_Boat_(10606213524).jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ford_Falcon_XR8_Ute_...
  - justatdotin 6y ago
    https://www.nine.com.au/entertainment/viral/towing-boat-with-bike-darwin/272192fb-a945-4f9d-a64e-f8eb6c73cdc5 https://www.nine.com.au/entertainment/viral/towing-boat-with...
- oblio 6y ago
  I've seen SOOOO many sedans and station wagons pulling trailers here in Europe. The Dutch are especially fond of camping with their trailers and I rarely see any of them using SUVs or anything bigger. What you're saying is likely not true.