3 ms·

> It will come soon a time (in fact, it's pretty much here already) where China calls the shots over us. The U.S. already does that. Why is that any better?

smabie 6y ago
Would you rather have the US tell you what to do or China?
- bloodorange 6y ago
  While there may be some negative news coverage of China's actions, most of them are within or at their borders. I have yet to see recent news of them bombing other countries, kidnapping people from around the world and destabilising regions around the world. In truth, I'd rather have neither of them bullying others but if I had to choose, I think the less violent bully is a better choice.
  - dice1-6 6y ago
    They do intimidate people abroad Canada: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-ramps-up-bullying-and-intimidation-tactics-in-canada-report/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-ramps... same in Australia https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-19/fake-chinese-police-cars-spotted-in-adelaide-and-perth/11426850 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-19/fake-chinese-police-c... kidnapping abroad (Thailand): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gui_Minhai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gui_Minhai killing abroad (Indonesia): https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45976946 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45976946 (Australia) https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-25/asio-says-its-taking-allegations-of-suspicious-death-serious/11733532 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-25/asio-says-its-taking-...
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  Neither. I would like there however to be a credible power to challenge U.S. policy, perhaps China even, so that it's hard for both sides to get aggressive policies implemented internationally as there's credible pushback. Right now, there's practically no pushback on crippling U.S. sanctions against Iran or Venezuela for example.
throwaway189262 6y ago
If china bullies too much the US and Europe will ally together against them. The difference between the US and China's government is that almost nobody likes China. The US, at least before recent political developments, tries to make sure that agreements benefit both sides. The US is also a democracy that respects freedom of the press and human rights to a degree. China doesn't give a shit about any of that.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > If china bullies too much the US and Europe will ally together against them. Right. My problem is that the U.S. already is bullying too much and nobody pushes back against them, if it takes China to do it, so be it. I wish the EU to grow a backbone, but it is unlikely to happen. I mean you have the U.S. sanctioning MEDICINE to Iran in the middle of a global pandemic and threatening Europe with secondary sanctions if we help out. You have the U.S. sanctioning ICC officials for wanting to investigate U.S. war crimes. You have the U.S. arguing in the open[1] that it is free to kill its own citizens without due process. I'd like someone to push against that, may as well be China if the EU is not up to the task, as it has repeatedly shown. 1 - https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201117/12384545723/government-argues-court-that-it-can-kill-us-citizens-will-with-zero-judicial-oversight.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201117/12384545723/gover...
  - throwaway189262 6y ago
    These are all very recent developments. The last few years has been very different than decades before. Hopefully we can restore some normalcy after this turbulent period...

smabie 6y ago

Would you rather have the US tell you what to do or China?

bloodorange 6y ago
While there may be some negative news coverage of China's actions, most of them are within or at their borders. I have yet to see recent news of them bombing other countries, kidnapping people from around the world and destabilising regions around the world. In truth, I'd rather have neither of them bullying others but if I had to choose, I think the less violent bully is a better choice.
- dice1-6 6y ago
  They do intimidate people abroad Canada: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-ramps-up-bullying-and-intimidation-tactics-in-canada-report/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-ramps... same in Australia https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-19/fake-chinese-police-cars-spotted-in-adelaide-and-perth/11426850 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-19/fake-chinese-police-c... kidnapping abroad (Thailand): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gui_Minhai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gui_Minhai killing abroad (Indonesia): https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45976946 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45976946 (Australia) https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-25/asio-says-its-taking-allegations-of-suspicious-death-serious/11733532 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-25/asio-says-its-taking-...
AsyncAwait 6y ago
Neither. I would like there however to be a credible power to challenge U.S. policy, perhaps China even, so that it's hard for both sides to get aggressive policies implemented internationally as there's credible pushback. Right now, there's practically no pushback on crippling U.S. sanctions against Iran or Venezuela for example.

throwaway189262 6y ago

If china bullies too much the US and Europe will ally together against them. The difference between the US and China's government is that almost nobody likes China. The US, at least before recent political developments, tries to make sure that agreements benefit both sides. The US is also a democracy that respects freedom of the press and human rights to a degree. China doesn't give a shit about any of that.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> If china bullies too much the US and Europe will ally together against them. Right. My problem is that the U.S. already is bullying too much and nobody pushes back against them, if it takes China to do it, so be it. I wish the EU to grow a backbone, but it is unlikely to happen. I mean you have the U.S. sanctioning MEDICINE to Iran in the middle of a global pandemic and threatening Europe with secondary sanctions if we help out. You have the U.S. sanctioning ICC officials for wanting to investigate U.S. war crimes. You have the U.S. arguing in the open[1] that it is free to kill its own citizens without due process. I'd like someone to push against that, may as well be China if the EU is not up to the task, as it has repeatedly shown. 1 - https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201117/12384545723/government-argues-court-that-it-can-kill-us-citizens-will-with-zero-judicial-oversight.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201117/12384545723/gover...
- throwaway189262 6y ago
  These are all very recent developments. The last few years has been very different than decades before. Hopefully we can restore some normalcy after this turbulent period...