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This analysis breaks out share of debt by family income and student earning quintiles: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/06/28/who-owes-the-most-stud

This analysis breaks out share of debt by family income and student earning quintiles: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/06/28/who-owes-the-most-student-debt/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/06/28/who-owes-... Their sources are also linked from that post. Going by student earnings, the top 40% of earners owe almost 60% of the debt. Going by family incomes has about the same distribution. None of the lower three quintiles are breaking ~15% of borrowing. This is absolutely a gift to the wealthy.

thomastjeffery 6y ago
> > the top 40% of earners owe almost 60% of the debt. > This is absolutely a gift to the wealthy. I think you need to look up the definition of "absolute". You left out 60% of your whole.
- jessedhillon 6y ago
  hyperbole notwithstanding, the greatest share of the debt is owed by the minority who has the greatest ability to pay. That's the salient point. The lower earning majority has lower debt on a per-capita and aggregated basis. This is certainly a benefit disproportionately for high earners from wealthy backgrounds.
  - thomastjeffery 6y ago
    God forbid the rich get richer. Meanwhile, the 60% of people you didn't mention - the ones with only 40% of debt owed - are in a crisis. You are saying that we must deny those people assistance, because we would also end up helping others who aren't in crisis, and doing so is unpalatable. So where is the solution for the people in crisis?
    - jessedhillon 6y ago
      God forbid that the rich be asked to pay anything at all for this incredible and unnecessary gift the people give them? What would make more sense would be targeted debt relief indexed on familial wealth, student earnings, and the institution's median outcome for the given degree program. Is there any room for accountability, or is the indiscriminate dumping of money out of a helicopter the only solution we're allowed to consider?
      - thomastjeffery 6y ago
        Go right ahead and consider, and even promote, another option. That's not what I have been seeing here. What I have been seeing is promotion of doing nothing at all, simply because the option being presented isn't perfect.
        jessedhillon 6y ago
        Those people are right. The data does not support the idea that student debt should be a top priority for anyone trying to maximize the impact of raining dollars onto the public. I'm presenting data not for the purpose of showing that there's a better way to distribute loan relief, but to show how incredible it is to claim this is motivated by desire to give relief to needy people (and therefore given top priority) It's decidedly not the needy who'd receive the most relief from this policy.
        thomastjeffery 6y ago
        > It's decidedly not the needy who'd receive the most relief from this policy. That was never the claim. Student loan forgiveness is not universal basic income, medicare, food stamps, etc. It is not designed to overcome poverty. That's a totally separate problem that needs attention. Are you saying you expect every tax dollar to go to the poor first? Clearly you aren't basing your expectations on the status quo: We spend $700 billion on defense, and $350 billion on welfare (not including medicaid). Just because there are more important problems to solve does not mean we should ignore this one.
        jessedhillon 6y ago
        My claim is that "people have student debt" is not one of societies issues. That some people have debt may be, but the question there is, who these people are and whether their educations are performing for them, not simply that the debt exists. Focusing on the debt is a red herring that conveniently rewards elites and others who are doing just fine. Focusing on whether universities are actually doing what they claim on the box is the real issue -- again conveniently elided by a blanket debt forgiveness program.

thomastjeffery 6y ago

> > the top 40% of earners owe almost 60% of the debt. > This is absolutely a gift to the wealthy. I think you need to look up the definition of "absolute". You left out 60% of your whole.

jessedhillon 6y ago
hyperbole notwithstanding, the greatest share of the debt is owed by the minority who has the greatest ability to pay. That's the salient point. The lower earning majority has lower debt on a per-capita and aggregated basis. This is certainly a benefit disproportionately for high earners from wealthy backgrounds.
- thomastjeffery 6y ago
  God forbid the rich get richer. Meanwhile, the 60% of people you didn't mention - the ones with only 40% of debt owed - are in a crisis. You are saying that we must deny those people assistance, because we would also end up helping others who aren't in crisis, and doing so is unpalatable. So where is the solution for the people in crisis?
  - jessedhillon 6y ago
    God forbid that the rich be asked to pay anything at all for this incredible and unnecessary gift the people give them? What would make more sense would be targeted debt relief indexed on familial wealth, student earnings, and the institution's median outcome for the given degree program. Is there any room for accountability, or is the indiscriminate dumping of money out of a helicopter the only solution we're allowed to consider?
    - thomastjeffery 6y ago
      Go right ahead and consider, and even promote, another option. That's not what I have been seeing here. What I have been seeing is promotion of doing nothing at all, simply because the option being presented isn't perfect.
      - jessedhillon 6y ago
        Those people are right. The data does not support the idea that student debt should be a top priority for anyone trying to maximize the impact of raining dollars onto the public. I'm presenting data not for the purpose of showing that there's a better way to distribute loan relief, but to show how incredible it is to claim this is motivated by desire to give relief to needy people (and therefore given top priority) It's decidedly not the needy who'd receive the most relief from this policy.
        thomastjeffery 6y ago
        > It's decidedly not the needy who'd receive the most relief from this policy. That was never the claim. Student loan forgiveness is not universal basic income, medicare, food stamps, etc. It is not designed to overcome poverty. That's a totally separate problem that needs attention. Are you saying you expect every tax dollar to go to the poor first? Clearly you aren't basing your expectations on the status quo: We spend $700 billion on defense, and $350 billion on welfare (not including medicaid). Just because there are more important problems to solve does not mean we should ignore this one.
        jessedhillon 6y ago
        My claim is that "people have student debt" is not one of societies issues. That some people have debt may be, but the question there is, who these people are and whether their educations are performing for them, not simply that the debt exists. Focusing on the debt is a red herring that conveniently rewards elites and others who are doing just fine. Focusing on whether universities are actually doing what they claim on the box is the real issue -- again conveniently elided by a blanket debt forgiveness program.