6 ms·

Life Lessons from a 97-Year-Old Lobsterman (2019)

142 points by marconey 6y ago

Barrin92 6y ago
>John maneuvers easily around a slippery deck, his only helper his son Sam, 72, who often comes along as his dad’s sternman. It's a funny sentence, when you hear about a son helping his father out in his fishing business I don't think you often imagine someone who is already 70 himself.
- Reflecticon 6y ago
  Thought the same about his son. I'm wondering why no one in the comment section commented on the fisherman's content for dying. He was ready to go at any moment and still defeated death when he was staring at him. I think that was the most remarkable and most wholesome aspect of the article.
Diesel555 6y ago
>He doesn’t get mad. Or if he does, he keeps it to himself. There is something to that.
nathanvanfleet 6y ago
I thought he was going to be mutated like a lobster...
leggomuhgreggo 6y ago
Pretty good. Better than "Life lessons from a 97-year-old Spiderman"
rmk 6y ago
Lot of commenters saying software has fucked them up. I wonder if it's the extended period inside that the pandemic has necessitated, that's triggering this angst. I am also feeling the same way, but I can't help but feel that to some degree, the months of isolation (not just from friends and framily, from the outdoors even) have a big part to play. The occupations where you are out and about carry a big risk: physical injury can put you out of work and cause debilitating pain for the rest of your life. Granted that it happens less will continue to trend down with improving oversight and safety standards, but it is still a risk. Perhaps we do not realise this or think clearly about it when we yearn for working with our hands/work outdoors?
- maltewirz 6y ago
  I think that you analyzed the situation correct in your second paragraph: E.g. people that work in construction: "Construction is a tough, heavy, manual industry where injury and ill health are likely; many workers leave the industry early due to ill health or musculoskeletal disorders (Arndt et al., 2005)." (Excerpt from https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003687015301058 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000368701...) I come from a different career (mechanical engineering degree and then worked in infosec consulting) and i observed that software engineers have the following advantages: 1. highest degree of freedom in their working conditions. 2. The most intellectually challenging work there often is in the entire company. those are the reasons that have drawn me to this industry and they continue to hold true for me :) And yes, the body and mind needs balance from intellectual work. For me it works best to do sports and spent time with family.
fm2606 6y ago
I went from manual to office to manual back to office. At 18 entered college to do computer programming, dropped out and at 19 joined Air Force to be an aircraft mechanic. After 4 years back to college as an aerospace engineer student. Graduated and then started the job jumping for 6 years because the jobs were boring. At age 35 I became a firefighter - paramedic (did PM classes at night - the fire department trained me to be a FF). About 4 years in to this career I saw a lot of people get injured, mainly with back injuries from repetitive, awkward positions so I decided to get a Master's in Computer Science online from DePaul University. It took me 5 years to complete. I started working part-time remote as a programmer. When Covid hit I decided that it was time to go and I found a full-time, remote programming job making good money. I thoroughly enjoy it. I still think FF-PM is the best job ever but with serious chronic health issues I couldn't risk getting sick. Also a constant sleep schedule is AWESOME! I spent 14 years as FF-PM. I am now 50 yo. I don't ever plan on retiring because I enjoy working and don't really have any hobbies beyond reading and programming. I do worry about being able to get a job when I'm older, but I'll find something to do.
- orzig 6y ago
  I suspect your unusual convergence of skills and domain knowledge will make you perfect for /some/ job at any age!
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  I just don't know what to do with my shameful career when reading this. Some people seem so focused and without doubts, I just feel so far away on the other side of that spectrum.
  - fm2606 6y ago
    Believe me when I say that there was a huge amount of doubt. When I was contemplating becoming a FF-PM I had a wife and 1 year old child. I was far from being in shape but I passed the requirements to be selected (if I had to do it today I'm not sure I would pass. They up their game on entrance requirements!). It didn't help that my mom was telling me that I shouldn't do it and that I should think about my family. But it was actually my family I was thinking of. I knew if I didn't do it right then and at that moment I would never do it and would regret it for the rest of my life. Fast forward to April 2020 and the department agrees to pull me out of the field because of Covid since I have a chronic liver disease. I thought I got a new lease on life as I was getting tired of the field. But it was more frustrating "upstairs" than in the field and I started applying for almost all remote programming jobs. When I finally got a legit job offer came doubt again. As a FF-PM in good standing with the department there was little chance of ever getting laid off or fired (the dept has a high, high rate of turnover). Now I had to decide to leave a secure job or take a job in the private sector. From money standpoint it was a no brainer, but from a security standpoint not so much. Ultimately I made the decision to leave the department. Look at where you are and where you would rather be in 1 year, 5 year and/or 10 years and work backwards from there. What can you do today to move you toward that 1 year, 5 year or 10 year position? Don't give up and don't stay in something you don't like.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nkurz 6y ago
As one might fear, Olson died shortly after the article was written, still age 97: https://www.penbaypilot.com/article/john-w-olson-obituary/127469 https://www.penbaypilot.com/article/john-w-olson-obituary/12...
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  He lived a long life, got to experience an absurdly eventful and turbulent near-century of human history. Managed to stay in good health and still had a sharp mind, according to the article. A life well lived, I would say.
cryptica 6y ago
The software industry messed me up big time. Often, I wish I had chosen a simpler career. It must feel amazing to spend most of your time thinking only about real, simple tangible things. I imagine that having a simple practical mind as an adult must feel like childhood but I will never know.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- elevenoh 6y ago
  >but I will never know. Nature, solitude, psilocybin mushrooms, & you'll know.
- joshspankit 6y ago
  There are definitely tradeoffs and I suspect that having chosen software, you might have gotten cabin fever before you were 20 years in. With software, you can tweak the rules that create a forest and press a button to have - in your hand - a board that’s better than the last: solid, straight, and knot-free. These are things that take decades in simpler disciplines.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    One must ask, “do I need the leverage tech provides to live a well lived life?”
    - joshspankit 6y ago
      This comment feels out of left field. Was I accidentally arguing that tech is more important than a well-lived life?
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        I might have misunderstood your comment. If so, my apologies for the hot take.
- 6y ago
1996 6y ago
Given the title, I was expecting advice from a human-arthropod hybrid who obtained longevity from genetic experimentation. Unfortunately, not yet!
- mendeza 6y ago
  Your comment made me laugh! I can imagine a machine learning model would derive the same meaning.
  - spiritplumber 6y ago
    TIL I am actually a machine-learning model. (Actually, I wonder if it's easier for a chatbot AI to emulate the writing of someone like me who is on the spectrum, than neurotypical writing)
    - 1996 6y ago
      The only spectrum worth being on is a ZX Spectrum
- owl57 6y ago
  I actually imagined a lobsterman from X-COM: TFTD: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Lobster_Man https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Lobster_Man
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    Classic lobster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzBh0J1YFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzBh0J1YFU
  - Jon_Lowtek 6y ago
    Same. Was deeply disappointed to find the article is about a human who lobstered professionally
ioctrl 6y ago
My father turned 80 recently and he still works five days a week. That wouldn’t be ideal for everyone, but he enjoys his job and he’s remained sharp and capable. That milestone really highlighted for me Silicon Valley’s weird relationship with age. It’s absurd to imagine 80 year old engineers working here. We’ll vote for a 78 year old to run the country, but won’t trust them to write code. Heck, it’s a bit shocking to see someone over 50 in my office. As someone who got into software engineering late in life, that’s worrying, and I suppose it’s time to start preparing for my third act.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- alephu5 6y ago
  I think that in 50 years time we'll see 80 year olds in software engineering. With the terrible economy that millennials have faced their entire adult lives, a lot of us will never retire. Moreover with the slowing of Moore's law, I think it'll be reasonable to keep up-to-date. Experience with 33Hz punch-card machines is not very transferrable to modern systems, but I'm willing to bet that in 50 years desktop CPUs will be in the same order of magnitude, and we'll be using keyboard + monitor. Anecodotal evidence: As a 19 year old I learnt programming on a 20 year old VBA program built by an IBM punch-card veteran, and was mentored by a scientist with a similar background who could not fathom what classes are.
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    I would expect in 50 years virtual reality will be indistinguishable from real world, which can make remote team work actually efficient, unlike current state. This has to enhance SW development in unimaginable ways. I still expect to use (virtual) keyboard and some form of 3d mouse. I can imagine multithreaded debugging made much easier. But yeah code will still be code, on similar platforms, don't expect anything radical compared to VMs of these days. Probably.
- MurizS 6y ago
  Out of curiosity, what was your first act and what made you transition to software engineering?
holoduke 6y ago
I am running two software companies. Extremely busy and got to deal with lots of negativities (unhappy people, firing, project delays etc). Yet the financials are better than ever. Sometimes I wish I just had a simpler life. Being a woodmaker or a electrician. I sometimes despise the life of ambitious posh people. Hate the world of VCs, diners and rich fake parties. Taking a step back is hard. Lots of pressure from the outside.
- dghughes 6y ago
  >Sometimes I wish I just had a simpler life. Being a woodmaker or a electrician. On YouTube I discovered a channel of a cobbler called Bedo's Leatherworks. It's relaxing to watch I thought this is a calming thing to watch during these crazy times plus my dad is ill (not making for less stress! I'm literally cracking my own teeth). I thought what a great job it's working with your hands, artistic, and useful. https://www.youtube.com/c/BedosLeatherworksLLC https://www.youtube.com/c/BedosLeatherworksLLC
- jakupovic 6y ago
  What makes you not do what you think you want to do?
- frankydp 6y ago
  Software dev is not posh in 99.999999% of the planet. Only in SF where they sell robberbaron-ism as a product. There is nothing posh about cat videos and hate speech on mass. Leave the Valley, get a real company/job. The rest of the world does not operate like Rome.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  Imagine yourself being 80. Weight on your good and bad life choices, now that they are done and set in stone with all the consequences. What would matter to you most? Clue - what others think about you now (or ever) won't matter a dime. What kind of lifestyle you project externally won't either. Life is damn too short, and it gets 'faster' as we get older. Another clue - most people when old end up regretting at least some parts of their lives. Only you can know what it means not ending up like one of them.

142 points by marconey 6y ago

>John maneuvers easily around a slippery deck, his only helper his son Sam, 72, who often comes along as his dad’s sternman. It's a funny sentence, when you hear about a son helping his father out in his fishing business I don't think you often imagine someone who is already 70 himself.

Reflecticon 6y ago
Thought the same about his son. I'm wondering why no one in the comment section commented on the fisherman's content for dying. He was ready to go at any moment and still defeated death when he was staring at him. I think that was the most remarkable and most wholesome aspect of the article.

Diesel555 6y ago

>He doesn’t get mad. Or if he does, he keeps it to himself. There is something to that.

nathanvanfleet 6y ago

I thought he was going to be mutated like a lobster...

leggomuhgreggo 6y ago

Pretty good. Better than "Life lessons from a 97-year-old Spiderman"

rmk 6y ago

Lot of commenters saying software has fucked them up. I wonder if it's the extended period inside that the pandemic has necessitated, that's triggering this angst. I am also feeling the same way, but I can't help but feel that to some degree, the months of isolation (not just from friends and framily, from the outdoors even) have a big part to play. The occupations where you are out and about carry a big risk: physical injury can put you out of work and cause debilitating pain for the rest of your life. Granted that it happens less will continue to trend down with improving oversight and safety standards, but it is still a risk. Perhaps we do not realise this or think clearly about it when we yearn for working with our hands/work outdoors?

maltewirz 6y ago
I think that you analyzed the situation correct in your second paragraph: E.g. people that work in construction: "Construction is a tough, heavy, manual industry where injury and ill health are likely; many workers leave the industry early due to ill health or musculoskeletal disorders (Arndt et al., 2005)." (Excerpt from https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003687015301058 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000368701...) I come from a different career (mechanical engineering degree and then worked in infosec consulting) and i observed that software engineers have the following advantages: 1. highest degree of freedom in their working conditions. 2. The most intellectually challenging work there often is in the entire company. those are the reasons that have drawn me to this industry and they continue to hold true for me :) And yes, the body and mind needs balance from intellectual work. For me it works best to do sports and spent time with family.

fm2606 6y ago

I went from manual to office to manual back to office. At 18 entered college to do computer programming, dropped out and at 19 joined Air Force to be an aircraft mechanic. After 4 years back to college as an aerospace engineer student. Graduated and then started the job jumping for 6 years because the jobs were boring. At age 35 I became a firefighter - paramedic (did PM classes at night - the fire department trained me to be a FF). About 4 years in to this career I saw a lot of people get injured, mainly with back injuries from repetitive, awkward positions so I decided to get a Master's in Computer Science online from DePaul University. It took me 5 years to complete. I started working part-time remote as a programmer. When Covid hit I decided that it was time to go and I found a full-time, remote programming job making good money. I thoroughly enjoy it. I still think FF-PM is the best job ever but with serious chronic health issues I couldn't risk getting sick. Also a constant sleep schedule is AWESOME! I spent 14 years as FF-PM. I am now 50 yo. I don't ever plan on retiring because I enjoy working and don't really have any hobbies beyond reading and programming. I do worry about being able to get a job when I'm older, but I'll find something to do.

orzig 6y ago
I suspect your unusual convergence of skills and domain knowledge will make you perfect for /some/ job at any age!
johnchristopher 6y ago
I just don't know what to do with my shameful career when reading this. Some people seem so focused and without doubts, I just feel so far away on the other side of that spectrum.
- fm2606 6y ago
  Believe me when I say that there was a huge amount of doubt. When I was contemplating becoming a FF-PM I had a wife and 1 year old child. I was far from being in shape but I passed the requirements to be selected (if I had to do it today I'm not sure I would pass. They up their game on entrance requirements!). It didn't help that my mom was telling me that I shouldn't do it and that I should think about my family. But it was actually my family I was thinking of. I knew if I didn't do it right then and at that moment I would never do it and would regret it for the rest of my life. Fast forward to April 2020 and the department agrees to pull me out of the field because of Covid since I have a chronic liver disease. I thought I got a new lease on life as I was getting tired of the field. But it was more frustrating "upstairs" than in the field and I started applying for almost all remote programming jobs. When I finally got a legit job offer came doubt again. As a FF-PM in good standing with the department there was little chance of ever getting laid off or fired (the dept has a high, high rate of turnover). Now I had to decide to leave a secure job or take a job in the private sector. From money standpoint it was a no brainer, but from a security standpoint not so much. Ultimately I made the decision to leave the department. Look at where you are and where you would rather be in 1 year, 5 year and/or 10 years and work backwards from there. What can you do today to move you toward that 1 year, 5 year or 10 year position? Don't give up and don't stay in something you don't like.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

nkurz 6y ago

As one might fear, Olson died shortly after the article was written, still age 97: https://www.penbaypilot.com/article/john-w-olson-obituary/127469 https://www.penbaypilot.com/article/john-w-olson-obituary/12...

KozmoNau7 6y ago
He lived a long life, got to experience an absurdly eventful and turbulent near-century of human history. Managed to stay in good health and still had a sharp mind, according to the article. A life well lived, I would say.

cryptica 6y ago

The software industry messed me up big time. Often, I wish I had chosen a simpler career. It must feel amazing to spend most of your time thinking only about real, simple tangible things. I imagine that having a simple practical mind as an adult must feel like childhood but I will never know.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
elevenoh 6y ago
>but I will never know. Nature, solitude, psilocybin mushrooms, & you'll know.
joshspankit 6y ago
There are definitely tradeoffs and I suspect that having chosen software, you might have gotten cabin fever before you were 20 years in. With software, you can tweak the rules that create a forest and press a button to have - in your hand - a board that’s better than the last: solid, straight, and knot-free. These are things that take decades in simpler disciplines.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  One must ask, “do I need the leverage tech provides to live a well lived life?”
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    This comment feels out of left field. Was I accidentally arguing that tech is more important than a well-lived life?
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      I might have misunderstood your comment. If so, my apologies for the hot take.
6y ago

1996 6y ago

Given the title, I was expecting advice from a human-arthropod hybrid who obtained longevity from genetic experimentation. Unfortunately, not yet!

mendeza 6y ago
Your comment made me laugh! I can imagine a machine learning model would derive the same meaning.
- spiritplumber 6y ago
  TIL I am actually a machine-learning model. (Actually, I wonder if it's easier for a chatbot AI to emulate the writing of someone like me who is on the spectrum, than neurotypical writing)
  - 1996 6y ago
    The only spectrum worth being on is a ZX Spectrum
owl57 6y ago
I actually imagined a lobsterman from X-COM: TFTD: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Lobster_Man https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Lobster_Man
- bbarnett 6y ago
  Classic lobster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzBh0J1YFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzBh0J1YFU
- Jon_Lowtek 6y ago
  Same. Was deeply disappointed to find the article is about a human who lobstered professionally

ioctrl 6y ago

My father turned 80 recently and he still works five days a week. That wouldn’t be ideal for everyone, but he enjoys his job and he’s remained sharp and capable. That milestone really highlighted for me Silicon Valley’s weird relationship with age. It’s absurd to imagine 80 year old engineers working here. We’ll vote for a 78 year old to run the country, but won’t trust them to write code. Heck, it’s a bit shocking to see someone over 50 in my office. As someone who got into software engineering late in life, that’s worrying, and I suppose it’s time to start preparing for my third act.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
alephu5 6y ago
I think that in 50 years time we'll see 80 year olds in software engineering. With the terrible economy that millennials have faced their entire adult lives, a lot of us will never retire. Moreover with the slowing of Moore's law, I think it'll be reasonable to keep up-to-date. Experience with 33Hz punch-card machines is not very transferrable to modern systems, but I'm willing to bet that in 50 years desktop CPUs will be in the same order of magnitude, and we'll be using keyboard + monitor. Anecodotal evidence: As a 19 year old I learnt programming on a 20 year old VBA program built by an IBM punch-card veteran, and was mentored by a scientist with a similar background who could not fathom what classes are.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  I would expect in 50 years virtual reality will be indistinguishable from real world, which can make remote team work actually efficient, unlike current state. This has to enhance SW development in unimaginable ways. I still expect to use (virtual) keyboard and some form of 3d mouse. I can imagine multithreaded debugging made much easier. But yeah code will still be code, on similar platforms, don't expect anything radical compared to VMs of these days. Probably.
MurizS 6y ago
Out of curiosity, what was your first act and what made you transition to software engineering?

holoduke 6y ago

I am running two software companies. Extremely busy and got to deal with lots of negativities (unhappy people, firing, project delays etc). Yet the financials are better than ever. Sometimes I wish I just had a simpler life. Being a woodmaker or a electrician. I sometimes despise the life of ambitious posh people. Hate the world of VCs, diners and rich fake parties. Taking a step back is hard. Lots of pressure from the outside.

dghughes 6y ago
>Sometimes I wish I just had a simpler life. Being a woodmaker or a electrician. On YouTube I discovered a channel of a cobbler called Bedo's Leatherworks. It's relaxing to watch I thought this is a calming thing to watch during these crazy times plus my dad is ill (not making for less stress! I'm literally cracking my own teeth). I thought what a great job it's working with your hands, artistic, and useful. https://www.youtube.com/c/BedosLeatherworksLLC https://www.youtube.com/c/BedosLeatherworksLLC
jakupovic 6y ago
What makes you not do what you think you want to do?
frankydp 6y ago
Software dev is not posh in 99.999999% of the planet. Only in SF where they sell robberbaron-ism as a product. There is nothing posh about cat videos and hate speech on mass. Leave the Valley, get a real company/job. The rest of the world does not operate like Rome.
saiya-jin 6y ago
Imagine yourself being 80. Weight on your good and bad life choices, now that they are done and set in stone with all the consequences. What would matter to you most? Clue - what others think about you now (or ever) won't matter a dime. What kind of lifestyle you project externally won't either. Life is damn too short, and it gets 'faster' as we get older. Another clue - most people when old end up regretting at least some parts of their lives. Only you can know what it means not ending up like one of them.