3 ms·

In https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-08-17-linux-package-managers-are-slow/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-08-17-linux-package... he measures N

by geofft 6y ago

In https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-08-17-linux-package-managers-are-slow/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-08-17-linux-package... he measures NixOS and determines it doesn't solve his problems. More commentary at https://twitter.com/zekjur/status/1162779362682384384 https://twitter.com/zekjur/status/1162779362682384384 (though it sounds like part of it is the fact that the "right" was to install something is nix-env -iA nixpkgs.whatever instead of nix-env -i whatever, which I too find confusing).

Ericson2314 6y ago
NIH hobby projects with good ideas that are doomed to go to waste rub me the wrong way. They are only a temporary reprieve from the burnout felt by for those that author them, anyways. Here's the thing, Nix is to slow (even ignoring `nix-env`'s terrible search functionality which should just be removed). What that requires is some good old boring profiling and optimization work. If he were to contribute that to a distro/package manager that basically shares his vision, this would be much more useful to the world. Cause, at the end of the day, the work isn't so much maintaining the package manager as maintaining the packages. That's simply too much work for anyone to do alone. http://blog.williammanley.net/2020/05/25/unlock-software-freedom-one-by-using-better-tools.html http://blog.williammanley.net/2020/05/25/unlock-software-fre... is good piece on why the ultimate issues with packaging are social, not technological. At this point, when the vast majority of devs don't seem to act as if there is a commons that even needs integration, I don't think any 1-person technological solution is going to be so good as to upend the social situation.
- basicneo 6y ago
  Even if it were true that a hobby project is just a temporary reprieve from burnout... so what? They're free to do so. And maybe we'll all get something good out of it at the end. The author has a history of delivering quality OSS projects: i3, Debian Code Search, RobustIRC, gokrazy.
- geofft 6y ago
  I don't think this is intended as a one-person technological solution. It's a one-person research project, trying to see if there are any architectural changes that can be applied to other distros that people actually use, such as Debian or Nix. It's true that the commons needs people willing to put in time and effort on boring things, but they have to be boring in the first place. If the author were to show up and say "Hey, Nix, if you rearchitect in this massive way it may or may not bring big improvements" and sent in a pull request, it would be rightly rejected. But it's still possible that a few days of rearchitecture can deliver the same results as a year of profiling and microoptimizations. The point of distri, as I understand it, is to have something to point to and say, this architectural change will actually work, and it's worth implementing in an actually-used distro.
  - secure 6y ago
    (I’m the original author) I agree with this great summary! I’m glad I got my points across :) Thanks!

by geofft 6y ago

Ericson2314 6y ago

NIH hobby projects with good ideas that are doomed to go to waste rub me the wrong way. They are only a temporary reprieve from the burnout felt by for those that author them, anyways. Here's the thing, Nix is to slow (even ignoring `nix-env`'s terrible search functionality which should just be removed). What that requires is some good old boring profiling and optimization work. If he were to contribute that to a distro/package manager that basically shares his vision, this would be much more useful to the world. Cause, at the end of the day, the work isn't so much maintaining the package manager as maintaining the packages. That's simply too much work for anyone to do alone. http://blog.williammanley.net/2020/05/25/unlock-software-freedom-one-by-using-better-tools.html http://blog.williammanley.net/2020/05/25/unlock-software-fre... is good piece on why the ultimate issues with packaging are social, not technological. At this point, when the vast majority of devs don't seem to act as if there is a commons that even needs integration, I don't think any 1-person technological solution is going to be so good as to upend the social situation.

basicneo 6y ago
Even if it were true that a hobby project is just a temporary reprieve from burnout... so what? They're free to do so. And maybe we'll all get something good out of it at the end. The author has a history of delivering quality OSS projects: i3, Debian Code Search, RobustIRC, gokrazy.
geofft 6y ago
I don't think this is intended as a one-person technological solution. It's a one-person research project, trying to see if there are any architectural changes that can be applied to other distros that people actually use, such as Debian or Nix. It's true that the commons needs people willing to put in time and effort on boring things, but they have to be boring in the first place. If the author were to show up and say "Hey, Nix, if you rearchitect in this massive way it may or may not bring big improvements" and sent in a pull request, it would be rightly rejected. But it's still possible that a few days of rearchitecture can deliver the same results as a year of profiling and microoptimizations. The point of distri, as I understand it, is to have something to point to and say, this architectural change will actually work, and it's worth implementing in an actually-used distro.
- secure 6y ago
  (I’m the original author) I agree with this great summary! I’m glad I got my points across :) Thanks!