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This isn't a magic button you can press to costlessly improve some people's lives. It's pure wealth redistribution with recipients disproportionately in the upp

This isn't a magic button you can press to costlessly improve some people's lives. It's pure wealth redistribution with recipients disproportionately in the upper middle class.

drewg123 6y ago
Do you have a citation to back this up? I admit my knowledge is anecdotal, but I know somebody in their 20s, who went to college, and is in debt that would be cancelled. This person was the first in their family to go to college, and was unable to find a job in their field. Most of this persons peers are in a similar situation with respect to debt and being unable to find jobs in their field. The jobs these people have are entry-level tech support, bar-tending / waiting tables, starbucks, etc. None of them are upper middle class.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Anecdotally, all of my friends who went to college are clearing 90k a year with many over 200k once you include stock options. One friend is a published expert in their field. Out of all my friends who attended college only one didn't get into a profitable field but their degree was in civil planning and their parents are going to buy them a vineyard to run. But again, just anecdotal.
  - GoodJokes 6y ago
    Do these friends have debt?
- jessedhillon 6y ago
  This analysis breaks out share of debt by family income and student earning quintiles: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/06/28/who-owes-the-most-student-debt/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/06/28/who-owes-... Their sources are also linked from that post. Going by student earnings, the top 40% of earners owe almost 60% of the debt. Going by family incomes has about the same distribution. None of the lower three quintiles are breaking ~15% of borrowing. This is absolutely a gift to the wealthy.
  - thomastjeffery 6y ago
    > > the top 40% of earners owe almost 60% of the debt. > This is absolutely a gift to the wealthy. I think you need to look up the definition of "absolute". You left out 60% of your whole.
    - jessedhillon 6y ago
      hyperbole notwithstanding, the greatest share of the debt is owed by the minority who has the greatest ability to pay. That's the salient point. The lower earning majority has lower debt on a per-capita and aggregated basis. This is certainly a benefit disproportionately for high earners from wealthy backgrounds.
      - thomastjeffery 6y ago
        God forbid the rich get richer. Meanwhile, the 60% of people you didn't mention - the ones with only 40% of debt owed - are in a crisis. You are saying that we must deny those people assistance, because we would also end up helping others who aren't in crisis, and doing so is unpalatable. So where is the solution for the people in crisis?
        jessedhillon 6y ago
        God forbid that the rich be asked to pay anything at all for this incredible and unnecessary gift the people give them? What would make more sense would be targeted debt relief indexed on familial wealth, student earnings, and the institution's median outcome for the given degree program. Is there any room for accountability, or is the indiscriminate dumping of money out of a helicopter the only solution we're allowed to consider?
        thomastjeffery 6y ago
        Go right ahead and consider, and even promote, another option. That's not what I have been seeing here. What I have been seeing is promotion of doing nothing at all, simply because the option being presented isn't perfect.
- cscurmudgeon 6y ago
  > Do you have a citation to back this up? Honestly, the side proposing a large action should also be ready with relevant research.

This isn't a magic button you can press to costlessly improve some people's lives. It's pure wealth redistribution with recipients disproportionately in the upper middle class.

drewg123 6y ago

Do you have a citation to back this up? I admit my knowledge is anecdotal, but I know somebody in their 20s, who went to college, and is in debt that would be cancelled. This person was the first in their family to go to college, and was unable to find a job in their field. Most of this persons peers are in a similar situation with respect to debt and being unable to find jobs in their field. The jobs these people have are entry-level tech support, bar-tending / waiting tables, starbucks, etc. None of them are upper middle class.

vorpalhex 6y ago
Anecdotally, all of my friends who went to college are clearing 90k a year with many over 200k once you include stock options. One friend is a published expert in their field. Out of all my friends who attended college only one didn't get into a profitable field but their degree was in civil planning and their parents are going to buy them a vineyard to run. But again, just anecdotal.
- GoodJokes 6y ago
  Do these friends have debt?
jessedhillon 6y ago
This analysis breaks out share of debt by family income and student earning quintiles: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/06/28/who-owes-the-most-student-debt/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/06/28/who-owes-... Their sources are also linked from that post. Going by student earnings, the top 40% of earners owe almost 60% of the debt. Going by family incomes has about the same distribution. None of the lower three quintiles are breaking ~15% of borrowing. This is absolutely a gift to the wealthy.
- thomastjeffery 6y ago
  > > the top 40% of earners owe almost 60% of the debt. > This is absolutely a gift to the wealthy. I think you need to look up the definition of "absolute". You left out 60% of your whole.
  - jessedhillon 6y ago
    hyperbole notwithstanding, the greatest share of the debt is owed by the minority who has the greatest ability to pay. That's the salient point. The lower earning majority has lower debt on a per-capita and aggregated basis. This is certainly a benefit disproportionately for high earners from wealthy backgrounds.
    - thomastjeffery 6y ago
      God forbid the rich get richer. Meanwhile, the 60% of people you didn't mention - the ones with only 40% of debt owed - are in a crisis. You are saying that we must deny those people assistance, because we would also end up helping others who aren't in crisis, and doing so is unpalatable. So where is the solution for the people in crisis?
      - jessedhillon 6y ago
        God forbid that the rich be asked to pay anything at all for this incredible and unnecessary gift the people give them? What would make more sense would be targeted debt relief indexed on familial wealth, student earnings, and the institution's median outcome for the given degree program. Is there any room for accountability, or is the indiscriminate dumping of money out of a helicopter the only solution we're allowed to consider?
        thomastjeffery 6y ago
        Go right ahead and consider, and even promote, another option. That's not what I have been seeing here. What I have been seeing is promotion of doing nothing at all, simply because the option being presented isn't perfect.
cscurmudgeon 6y ago
> Do you have a citation to back this up? Honestly, the side proposing a large action should also be ready with relevant research.