5 ms·

They're laughing right now, but really these kinds of mistakes are telling how weak the security of various agencies are.

fakedang 6y ago
EU militaries are a joke tbf. Apart from France and (formerly) the UK, most of them can't do shit except sell firearms to Arab despots. I think someone from Romania here mentioned that they trust the US to protect them more than they trust France or Germany.
- rgblambda 6y ago
  If the EU is to become independent from the US as Macron wants it to, then that's going to have to change.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- vagrantJin 6y ago
  As a bloc, I don't think EU had much of a choice. US had them on tight leash until DJT came through and force thenm to consider protecting themselves. To think DJT has woken up the EU from their decades long slumber is incredible.
  - cptnapalm 6y ago
    There was chatter about this back in the mid-2000s about the EU forming their own independent foreign policy. There was lots of ink spilled about the EU's soft power which evaporated as it turns out soft power doesn't exist without hard power. Obama lamented the "free rider" problem where much of the EU wouldn't live up to their treaty obligations. The EU wasn't on a leash; it just didn't bother.
    - vagrantJin 6y ago
      By a leash I mean being a freeloader at your friends house with his wife and kids. He says its ok because he has known you since you were toddlers. That's the leash. The EU didnt bother on account of the US taxpayer footing the bill regardless thus removing their freedom of action and their seat on the table. They've gotten so feeble, no one even cares.
      - mschuster91 6y ago
        > The EU didnt bother on account of the US taxpayer footing the bill regardless The US didn't just burn that money for naught, they got something from all that investment and that is that they were for all intents and purposes the leader of the world, both in "soft power" and "hard power". The problem is that it is very hard to quantify the benefits while it's extremely easy to quantify the costs.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  German here, you're right. The biggest part of the problem is that historically there are only three superpowers in the EU - France, UK and Germany. The UK is gone off the rails, the French can't pick up the slack for everyone else alone and us Germans are (out of very valid historical concern) extremely wary of pulling our weight on the international stage. Add to this that the EU is corrosively fractured, nowhere near as coherent as the US. We're no match, hell (thanks to the Brits) the EU doesn't even have a Foreign Minister, and the effective veto power of even a super tiny nation doesn't make it any easier.
  - bserge 6y ago
    Is Germany really that reserved because of the last world war? I mean, I get that it was bad, but it's history. Everyone else who has a very similar history (even though it's painted in a better light by the media) has moved on.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      Germany caused not one but two world wars and is, despite being beaten almost to death after ww2, once again the dominant power in the EU. Let's face it we usually get what we want even without having a competitive military - if we had there would not be much to stop us. I'm actually grateful that our leaders have been and still are mindful of that fact.
      - rosmax_1337 6y ago
        I'll give you last word if you reply to this comment, since this discussion seems like something that generally doesn't belong on this site. But, Germany did not cause two world wars.
        fakedang 6y ago
        Did I just imagine up a tyrannical despot who seized power from the democratic process, called himself Fuhrer, then went on to slowly acquire land from Czechoslovakia, Austria and Yugoslavia, before deciding to invade France, Benelux, Poland and a host of other countries? Or the time when the hot-tempered Kaiser couldn't keep it in his pants and wanted to test his new toys with the rest of his aristocrat buddies?

fakedang 6y ago

EU militaries are a joke tbf. Apart from France and (formerly) the UK, most of them can't do shit except sell firearms to Arab despots. I think someone from Romania here mentioned that they trust the US to protect them more than they trust France or Germany.

rgblambda 6y ago
If the EU is to become independent from the US as Macron wants it to, then that's going to have to change.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
vagrantJin 6y ago
As a bloc, I don't think EU had much of a choice. US had them on tight leash until DJT came through and force thenm to consider protecting themselves. To think DJT has woken up the EU from their decades long slumber is incredible.
- cptnapalm 6y ago
  There was chatter about this back in the mid-2000s about the EU forming their own independent foreign policy. There was lots of ink spilled about the EU's soft power which evaporated as it turns out soft power doesn't exist without hard power. Obama lamented the "free rider" problem where much of the EU wouldn't live up to their treaty obligations. The EU wasn't on a leash; it just didn't bother.
  - vagrantJin 6y ago
    By a leash I mean being a freeloader at your friends house with his wife and kids. He says its ok because he has known you since you were toddlers. That's the leash. The EU didnt bother on account of the US taxpayer footing the bill regardless thus removing their freedom of action and their seat on the table. They've gotten so feeble, no one even cares.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      > The EU didnt bother on account of the US taxpayer footing the bill regardless The US didn't just burn that money for naught, they got something from all that investment and that is that they were for all intents and purposes the leader of the world, both in "soft power" and "hard power". The problem is that it is very hard to quantify the benefits while it's extremely easy to quantify the costs.
mschuster91 6y ago
German here, you're right. The biggest part of the problem is that historically there are only three superpowers in the EU - France, UK and Germany. The UK is gone off the rails, the French can't pick up the slack for everyone else alone and us Germans are (out of very valid historical concern) extremely wary of pulling our weight on the international stage. Add to this that the EU is corrosively fractured, nowhere near as coherent as the US. We're no match, hell (thanks to the Brits) the EU doesn't even have a Foreign Minister, and the effective veto power of even a super tiny nation doesn't make it any easier.
- bserge 6y ago
  Is Germany really that reserved because of the last world war? I mean, I get that it was bad, but it's history. Everyone else who has a very similar history (even though it's painted in a better light by the media) has moved on.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Germany caused not one but two world wars and is, despite being beaten almost to death after ww2, once again the dominant power in the EU. Let's face it we usually get what we want even without having a competitive military - if we had there would not be much to stop us. I'm actually grateful that our leaders have been and still are mindful of that fact.
    - rosmax_1337 6y ago
      I'll give you last word if you reply to this comment, since this discussion seems like something that generally doesn't belong on this site. But, Germany did not cause two world wars.
      - fakedang 6y ago
        Did I just imagine up a tyrannical despot who seized power from the democratic process, called himself Fuhrer, then went on to slowly acquire land from Czechoslovakia, Austria and Yugoslavia, before deciding to invade France, Benelux, Poland and a host of other countries? Or the time when the hot-tempered Kaiser couldn't keep it in his pants and wanted to test his new toys with the rest of his aristocrat buddies?