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Ah the age old, “I was successful despite setbacks, so literally everyone is capable of the same, just work harder like I did”. I grew up in a very wealthy town

by soared 6y ago

Ah the age old, “I was successful despite setbacks, so literally everyone is capable of the same, just work harder like I did”. I grew up in a very wealthy town and many of my friends shared this opinion - until they volunteered or worked with actually disadvantaged kids. Young Jimmy can’t pull himself up by his bootstraps when dad is in jail and mom works 12 hour shifts at McDonald’s. School feeds him breakfast and lunch. “Just work a little harder young jimmy, you can be successful despite not eating enough and having little parental guidance for the first 15 years of your life!” I did it just fine! You see it as a race because you won. Many people are just trying to stay alive, they can’t even conceptualize competing.

mlboss 6y ago
I think that’s what the top comment is saying. Every one starts the race with different set of disadvantages. In the end its up to you what are you going do about it. Also OP never says that he won the race. He is hoping his children will do better than him. I don’t think anybody ever “wins”. You only trade something for something else.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  So we just give up on the concept of equal opportunity since everyone starts out differently?
- soared 6y ago
  > In the end its up to you what are you going do about it. This is the ideology I was arguing against since it comes purely from a view of someone successful. It assumes everyone is equally capable of “doing something”. But if you struggle to find your next meal, you can’t do anything besides.. Try to find food. There is no “doing something about it” because you are so disadvantaged that regardless of your action it’s impossible to escape. In some cases you didn’t eat enough as a child and your brain is literally incapable of escaping. And you’ve never seen someone escape, so it’s not a known possibility. From my perspective op won the race because he/she makes 100k so objectively isn’t poor and doesn’t have comparable hurdles.
generalizations 6y ago
>> My parents immigrated to a country with basically nothing and barely spoke English. I can't imagine what their lives were like, how hard it must have been. I was raised below the poverty line and had free lunch well into high school. > Young Jimmy can’t pull himself up by his bootstraps when dad is in jail and mom works 12 hour shifts at McDonald’s. School feeds him breakfast and lunch. I don't see the difference. It sounds like Jimmy is starting at the point the OP's parents did, not OP.
- rrobukef 6y ago
  Isn't there a big difference between a child that still has to learn basic skills such as cooking and an adult that was taught this. One person compared to a couple?
tasuki 6y ago
> Ah the age old, “I was successful despite setbacks, so literally everyone is capable of the same, just work harder like I did” This is totally not what davidn20 wrote.
- davidn20 6y ago
  Thank you
  - soared 6y ago
    > Is it unfair? Fuck yea it is, but what are you going to do? Stay there and complain? Or are you gonna get busy running. This is literally “pick yourself up by your bootstraps”. Get busy running is not a thing underprivileged kids can do.
    - tasuki 6y ago
      Perhaps it even is "pick yourself up by your bootstraps and your kids' life might be better". Do you not see how that's different from "I was successful despite setbacks, so literally everyone is capable of the same, just work harder like I did"? Undeprivileged kids can try harder or less hard, same as privileged kids can try harder or less hard. The starting position makes a huge difference. Whether one tries or not also makes a huge difference.
      - soared 6y ago
        Yeah the point I make in my other reply is that hard work from a privileged kid results in success, but hard work from an underprivileged kid does not result in success, and likely will not result in their children’s success. At its core it’s the difference between believing anyone can succeed and believing outside factors are much more impactful than working hard. In America it is often times a conservative b liberal mindset.
    - tasuki 6y ago
      > Get busy running is not a thing underprivileged kids can do. It's a thing privileged kids can afford not to do. Underprivileged kids absolutely have to get busy running to get anywhere.
sandworm101 6y ago
As a result of his difficult home life "young jimmy" acts out at school. Whereas in the past he got sent to the principal's office, today he is sent to the community support officer. Young jimmy has a criminal record. Higher education is now off the table. The OP had three advantages that many kids today dont: he had at least two parents. Those parents had no contact with the criminal justice system and were themselves in good health (evidenced by the fact they were allowed to immigrate). And his parents were probably allowed to work. Many young kids today dont have two parents. Many young kids have one or more parents who are not properly citizens, who dont enjoy the priviledge of being allowed to work legally. Today is not yesturday. Poor kids today face much greater challenges than those of the past. Direct comparisons of situations are almost always apples and oranges.
- marcusverus 6y ago
  > Poor kids today face much greater challenges than those of the past. To believe this requires a baffling degree of historical ignorance.
  - tingol 6y ago
    Depends actually, it's pretty easy to see that boomer kids had way more opportunities than those of today. Depression era kids had it way worse of course.
    - atomi 6y ago
      The landed class loves watching poor folks compete. It makes the poor more productive. You just have to adjust monetary policy to maintain that status quo. Of course, the opposite of that is true as well. Ultimately the race isn't all about merit but also politics.

by soared 6y ago

mlboss 6y ago

I think that’s what the top comment is saying. Every one starts the race with different set of disadvantages. In the end its up to you what are you going do about it. Also OP never says that he won the race. He is hoping his children will do better than him. I don’t think anybody ever “wins”. You only trade something for something else.

whimsicalism 6y ago
So we just give up on the concept of equal opportunity since everyone starts out differently?
soared 6y ago
> In the end its up to you what are you going do about it. This is the ideology I was arguing against since it comes purely from a view of someone successful. It assumes everyone is equally capable of “doing something”. But if you struggle to find your next meal, you can’t do anything besides.. Try to find food. There is no “doing something about it” because you are so disadvantaged that regardless of your action it’s impossible to escape. In some cases you didn’t eat enough as a child and your brain is literally incapable of escaping. And you’ve never seen someone escape, so it’s not a known possibility. From my perspective op won the race because he/she makes 100k so objectively isn’t poor and doesn’t have comparable hurdles.

generalizations 6y ago

>> My parents immigrated to a country with basically nothing and barely spoke English. I can't imagine what their lives were like, how hard it must have been. I was raised below the poverty line and had free lunch well into high school. > Young Jimmy can’t pull himself up by his bootstraps when dad is in jail and mom works 12 hour shifts at McDonald’s. School feeds him breakfast and lunch. I don't see the difference. It sounds like Jimmy is starting at the point the OP's parents did, not OP.

rrobukef 6y ago
Isn't there a big difference between a child that still has to learn basic skills such as cooking and an adult that was taught this. One person compared to a couple?

tasuki 6y ago

> Ah the age old, “I was successful despite setbacks, so literally everyone is capable of the same, just work harder like I did” This is totally not what davidn20 wrote.

davidn20 6y ago
Thank you
- soared 6y ago
  > Is it unfair? Fuck yea it is, but what are you going to do? Stay there and complain? Or are you gonna get busy running. This is literally “pick yourself up by your bootstraps”. Get busy running is not a thing underprivileged kids can do.
  - tasuki 6y ago
    Perhaps it even is "pick yourself up by your bootstraps and your kids' life might be better". Do you not see how that's different from "I was successful despite setbacks, so literally everyone is capable of the same, just work harder like I did"? Undeprivileged kids can try harder or less hard, same as privileged kids can try harder or less hard. The starting position makes a huge difference. Whether one tries or not also makes a huge difference.
    - soared 6y ago
      Yeah the point I make in my other reply is that hard work from a privileged kid results in success, but hard work from an underprivileged kid does not result in success, and likely will not result in their children’s success. At its core it’s the difference between believing anyone can succeed and believing outside factors are much more impactful than working hard. In America it is often times a conservative b liberal mindset.
  - tasuki 6y ago
    > Get busy running is not a thing underprivileged kids can do. It's a thing privileged kids can afford not to do. Underprivileged kids absolutely have to get busy running to get anywhere.

sandworm101 6y ago

As a result of his difficult home life "young jimmy" acts out at school. Whereas in the past he got sent to the principal's office, today he is sent to the community support officer. Young jimmy has a criminal record. Higher education is now off the table. The OP had three advantages that many kids today dont: he had at least two parents. Those parents had no contact with the criminal justice system and were themselves in good health (evidenced by the fact they were allowed to immigrate). And his parents were probably allowed to work. Many young kids today dont have two parents. Many young kids have one or more parents who are not properly citizens, who dont enjoy the priviledge of being allowed to work legally. Today is not yesturday. Poor kids today face much greater challenges than those of the past. Direct comparisons of situations are almost always apples and oranges.

marcusverus 6y ago
> Poor kids today face much greater challenges than those of the past. To believe this requires a baffling degree of historical ignorance.
- tingol 6y ago
  Depends actually, it's pretty easy to see that boomer kids had way more opportunities than those of today. Depression era kids had it way worse of course.
  - atomi 6y ago
    The landed class loves watching poor folks compete. It makes the poor more productive. You just have to adjust monetary policy to maintain that status quo. Of course, the opposite of that is true as well. Ultimately the race isn't all about merit but also politics.