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Because you're there to work. Because you'll change employer, maybe frequently, and most of your relationships with colleagues will fall away when you do, wher

by Nursie 6y ago

Because you're there to work. Because you'll change employer, maybe frequently, and most of your relationships with colleagues will fall away when you do, where relationships with friends are lifelong. WFH allows me to see more of my partner and my real friends in my local area, removing wasted commuting time into the bargain.

donatj 6y ago
> Because you're there to work. That’s such a weird accusation. No I’m not. I get paid to work, and I do good work, but I am not there to work. My goal in life is not “to work”. That sounds absolutely miserable.
- 1986 6y ago
  Don't take it as a personal accusation - it's great, and lucky for you, that you get that kind of energy from your work and from your relationship with your colleagues. I've had jobs and colleagues like that too. But fundamentally, your employer - the other party in your most basic work relationship (between you and the company that employs you) - does see you as being "there to work". And the moment you switch jobs, or get moved into another business unit, or get laid off, those social relationships with your (now-former) coworkers aren't automatically there during the work day. If you want to preserve them, guess what? You're looking at using those off hours. I understand your argument a bit better if you're treating socialization like caffeine or something - a purely functional hit of dopamine that gets you through the day. But I think that's maybe a fundamental disagreement on the premise of social life.
- fennecfoxen 6y ago
  If you weren’t paid and wouldn’t work, would you still go to the same office, and would they allow you there? If not, you are probably there to work.
  - jlokier 6y ago
    Conversely: If you were paid and work there, but every time you did something that looked like socialising someone would come over and tell you to stop, reminding you that you are there to solely to work, would you stay there? If you'd leave, you are probably not there solely to work.
    - Nursie 6y ago
      A lot of people's workplaces do operate like that, though not anywhere I'd want to be. But there certainly are limits and if you appear to be socialising more than working many places will ask you to perhaps refocus your attentions.
- noirbot 6y ago
  But it is somewhat true. The point of being in the office is to get work done. You're being paid to do work, and in the past, part of that was a requirement you be in the office some portion of the time. You were in the office _to work_. It's not to say you may not have other things you like about the office, but the reason the company bought an office and requires you to be there is to work. Which leads to the other side of this. I want my time in the office to be about work. I don't mind socializing some, and I like my coworkers well enough, but we hired them because they were good at their jobs and didn't seem like bad people to be around. Not because I thought they'd be good friends, or have similar hobbies to me. Because of that, given the choice, I'd rather spend social time with the group of friends I have cultivated myself, instead of having my coworkers try to force a connection just because we sit near each other at the office. I don't go to work to support someone's else's lack of a social life outside of work, and just because I was required by my job to be in the same room as you doesn't mean you can/should expect me to like you as more than someone I work with. There's plenty of coworkers I like and some I'm actually friends with, but also plenty of people who try to use the conditions of our mutual employment to fill in for friendships they didn't develop outside of work.
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    >There's plenty of coworkers I like and some I'm actually friends with, but also plenty of people who try to use the conditions of our mutual employment to fill in for friendships they didn't develop outside of work. That seems an uncharitable way to put it. People only make friends in general by putting themselves out there and making an effort. Is the difference between those two groups merely that the 'actual friends' are the ones who you ended up liking rather than having to pretend to like?
    - noirbot 6y ago
      I mostly mean it to be people who try to push for "team events" or "team lunches" or "team happy hours", even when some or most of the team make it clear that they're not interested. Often this is accompanied by shaming/annoyance if you're not interested in joining in. I don't mind people trying to make friends at work, and often I don't even dislike the people who annoy me like this, I just don't like them as much as they seem to like the idea of spending time with me. There's a gap between people I like making smalltalk with before a meeting or while I'm taking a break to get coffee, and people I want to have a dedicated social time with. If you want to make friends at work, don't use the mechanisms of my employment to coerce me into spending time with you.
- Nursie 6y ago
  > My goal in life is not “to work”. I'm not sure how to respond to this. Of course it's not, and neither mine. My goal in life is also not "to be in an office" either. But when I am in one, I'm there for work. The office is a workspace, that's literally the point of it...
ubercow13 6y ago
I have changed “local area” much more often than workplace in my career so far. I feel like in an average inner city office where many people are likely to have moved around for work, especially amongst younger people, it's probably not the case that they have a healthy group of lifelong friends already in their local area.
ck425 6y ago
It's not an either or. You can have a great social life outside of work and still want and enjoy great relationships with colleagues. Yeah maybe they don't last once you leave, that doesn't mean they're not valuable!
- Nursie 6y ago
  I agree, and it's not wrong to find social value in your workplace. But I think it's probably not healthy if it's all you have, or even relied upon as "primary" when it can change out from under you in a matter of hours.

by Nursie 6y ago

donatj 6y ago

> Because you're there to work. That’s such a weird accusation. No I’m not. I get paid to work, and I do good work, but I am not there to work. My goal in life is not “to work”. That sounds absolutely miserable.

1986 6y ago
Don't take it as a personal accusation - it's great, and lucky for you, that you get that kind of energy from your work and from your relationship with your colleagues. I've had jobs and colleagues like that too. But fundamentally, your employer - the other party in your most basic work relationship (between you and the company that employs you) - does see you as being "there to work". And the moment you switch jobs, or get moved into another business unit, or get laid off, those social relationships with your (now-former) coworkers aren't automatically there during the work day. If you want to preserve them, guess what? You're looking at using those off hours. I understand your argument a bit better if you're treating socialization like caffeine or something - a purely functional hit of dopamine that gets you through the day. But I think that's maybe a fundamental disagreement on the premise of social life.
fennecfoxen 6y ago
If you weren’t paid and wouldn’t work, would you still go to the same office, and would they allow you there? If not, you are probably there to work.
- jlokier 6y ago
  Conversely: If you were paid and work there, but every time you did something that looked like socialising someone would come over and tell you to stop, reminding you that you are there to solely to work, would you stay there? If you'd leave, you are probably not there solely to work.
  - Nursie 6y ago
    A lot of people's workplaces do operate like that, though not anywhere I'd want to be. But there certainly are limits and if you appear to be socialising more than working many places will ask you to perhaps refocus your attentions.
noirbot 6y ago
But it is somewhat true. The point of being in the office is to get work done. You're being paid to do work, and in the past, part of that was a requirement you be in the office some portion of the time. You were in the office _to work_. It's not to say you may not have other things you like about the office, but the reason the company bought an office and requires you to be there is to work. Which leads to the other side of this. I want my time in the office to be about work. I don't mind socializing some, and I like my coworkers well enough, but we hired them because they were good at their jobs and didn't seem like bad people to be around. Not because I thought they'd be good friends, or have similar hobbies to me. Because of that, given the choice, I'd rather spend social time with the group of friends I have cultivated myself, instead of having my coworkers try to force a connection just because we sit near each other at the office. I don't go to work to support someone's else's lack of a social life outside of work, and just because I was required by my job to be in the same room as you doesn't mean you can/should expect me to like you as more than someone I work with. There's plenty of coworkers I like and some I'm actually friends with, but also plenty of people who try to use the conditions of our mutual employment to fill in for friendships they didn't develop outside of work.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  >There's plenty of coworkers I like and some I'm actually friends with, but also plenty of people who try to use the conditions of our mutual employment to fill in for friendships they didn't develop outside of work. That seems an uncharitable way to put it. People only make friends in general by putting themselves out there and making an effort. Is the difference between those two groups merely that the 'actual friends' are the ones who you ended up liking rather than having to pretend to like?
  - noirbot 6y ago
    I mostly mean it to be people who try to push for "team events" or "team lunches" or "team happy hours", even when some or most of the team make it clear that they're not interested. Often this is accompanied by shaming/annoyance if you're not interested in joining in. I don't mind people trying to make friends at work, and often I don't even dislike the people who annoy me like this, I just don't like them as much as they seem to like the idea of spending time with me. There's a gap between people I like making smalltalk with before a meeting or while I'm taking a break to get coffee, and people I want to have a dedicated social time with. If you want to make friends at work, don't use the mechanisms of my employment to coerce me into spending time with you.
Nursie 6y ago
> My goal in life is not “to work”. I'm not sure how to respond to this. Of course it's not, and neither mine. My goal in life is also not "to be in an office" either. But when I am in one, I'm there for work. The office is a workspace, that's literally the point of it...

ubercow13 6y ago

I have changed “local area” much more often than workplace in my career so far. I feel like in an average inner city office where many people are likely to have moved around for work, especially amongst younger people, it's probably not the case that they have a healthy group of lifelong friends already in their local area.

ck425 6y ago

It's not an either or. You can have a great social life outside of work and still want and enjoy great relationships with colleagues. Yeah maybe they don't last once you leave, that doesn't mean they're not valuable!

Nursie 6y ago
I agree, and it's not wrong to find social value in your workplace. But I think it's probably not healthy if it's all you have, or even relied upon as "primary" when it can change out from under you in a matter of hours.