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I remember watching Kedi, a feel-good non-fiction film about cats in Istanbul that was popular a few years ago. My impression was less "awww" and more "wow, Ist

I remember watching Kedi, a feel-good non-fiction film about cats in Istanbul that was popular a few years ago. My impression was less "awww" and more "wow, Istanbul has a massive feral cat problem." I'm not sure having thousands of feral animals fight over your garbage is good for public health or, for that matter, humane toward the animals.

HarryHirsch 6y ago
You think you have a feral cat problem, but you really have a rodent problem that the cats are keeping in check. Conservationists found that out the hard way when they removed cats from remote islands to boost bird populations. Then the number of rats and mice exploded until there was nothing left.
- legerdemain 6y ago
  The solution to rodent problems in cities is sanitation, not feral cats. Example: don't smear buckets of raw fish guts in the streets, as people in Kedi are shown doing. "Until there was nothing left" sounds dramatic. Can you point me to any wildlife conservation campaigns that introduced cats to control other invasive species? All I can think of are the feral cats on Hawaii, that are described as "among the most harmful invasive species globally".[1] [1] https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/feral-cats/ https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/...
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    It's probably this one: https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=6637714&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=6637714&page=1 "But the decision to eradicate the felines from Macquarie island allowed the rabbit population to explode and, in turn, destroy much of its fragile vegetation that birds depend on for cover"
    - legerdemain 6y ago
      Thank you! That's a fascinating counterexample. In most places the cats are the invaders that eradicate native bird species. I'm curious why the native fauna of Macquarie was more resilient to cats.
nlh 6y ago
I did not walk away from watching Kedi (or leave my recent visit to Istanbul) thinking that the cats live anything but an excellent life. I think it's inhumane how cats are treated basically everywhere else! In Istanbul, cats are loved, fed, petted, and live a pretty great life. In almost every other city on earth, they're picked up and sent to shelters where they live in cramped cages until someone happens to adopt them or they're killed. Which sounds more humane?
- legerdemain 6y ago
  I come from a country that has stray cats (and dogs) roaming the streets. Some are probably cared for by kind people who give them food. But lots and lots of these animals are sick, starving, sometimes aggressive parasites that live on trash. Many look sickly or injured, and I doubt their lives are long or pleasant. Is your claim that people in Turkey are so uniquely, extraordinarily committed to their street cats that the lives those cats lead are similar to the lives of pet cats in other countries?
  - nlh 6y ago
    Yes, almost exactly that (I’ve only visited Istanbul so I can’t speak to other parts of Turkey, but basically yes.) The overall picture I got is that the cats of Istanbul do seem to be uniquely loved and well-treated compared to the street animals of other countries. They are welcomed, not seen as nuisances. They are immediately loving to people, not skeptical and skittish. They seek affection (and food), not just food.
    - legerdemain 6y ago
      Then why isn't Istanbul's cat population continuing to soar? If they are well-fed, they will reproduce normally, with the corresponding growth in their population. Human populations don't necessarily fall into the Malthusian trap, but animal populations certainly do. So either cats and kittens are dying of accidents, disease and a lack of food, or they are neutered by humans. Like... it's not as though cats will have fewer litters if they get a college education and a career outside the home. A female cat will have 1-2 litters of 1-5 kittens every year, that's just how their lifecycle works.
mehrdadn 6y ago
They're not feral cats, they're stray cats. I found them pretty cute when I watched the video. (Recommend it for those who haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpG0z-npFIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpG0z-npFIY)

HarryHirsch 6y ago

You think you have a feral cat problem, but you really have a rodent problem that the cats are keeping in check. Conservationists found that out the hard way when they removed cats from remote islands to boost bird populations. Then the number of rats and mice exploded until there was nothing left.

legerdemain 6y ago
The solution to rodent problems in cities is sanitation, not feral cats. Example: don't smear buckets of raw fish guts in the streets, as people in Kedi are shown doing. "Until there was nothing left" sounds dramatic. Can you point me to any wildlife conservation campaigns that introduced cats to control other invasive species? All I can think of are the feral cats on Hawaii, that are described as "among the most harmful invasive species globally".[1] [1] https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/feral-cats/ https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/...
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  It's probably this one: https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=6637714&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=6637714&page=1 "But the decision to eradicate the felines from Macquarie island allowed the rabbit population to explode and, in turn, destroy much of its fragile vegetation that birds depend on for cover"
  - legerdemain 6y ago
    Thank you! That's a fascinating counterexample. In most places the cats are the invaders that eradicate native bird species. I'm curious why the native fauna of Macquarie was more resilient to cats.

nlh 6y ago

I did not walk away from watching Kedi (or leave my recent visit to Istanbul) thinking that the cats live anything but an excellent life. I think it's inhumane how cats are treated basically everywhere else! In Istanbul, cats are loved, fed, petted, and live a pretty great life. In almost every other city on earth, they're picked up and sent to shelters where they live in cramped cages until someone happens to adopt them or they're killed. Which sounds more humane?

legerdemain 6y ago
I come from a country that has stray cats (and dogs) roaming the streets. Some are probably cared for by kind people who give them food. But lots and lots of these animals are sick, starving, sometimes aggressive parasites that live on trash. Many look sickly or injured, and I doubt their lives are long or pleasant. Is your claim that people in Turkey are so uniquely, extraordinarily committed to their street cats that the lives those cats lead are similar to the lives of pet cats in other countries?
- nlh 6y ago
  Yes, almost exactly that (I’ve only visited Istanbul so I can’t speak to other parts of Turkey, but basically yes.) The overall picture I got is that the cats of Istanbul do seem to be uniquely loved and well-treated compared to the street animals of other countries. They are welcomed, not seen as nuisances. They are immediately loving to people, not skeptical and skittish. They seek affection (and food), not just food.
  - legerdemain 6y ago
    Then why isn't Istanbul's cat population continuing to soar? If they are well-fed, they will reproduce normally, with the corresponding growth in their population. Human populations don't necessarily fall into the Malthusian trap, but animal populations certainly do. So either cats and kittens are dying of accidents, disease and a lack of food, or they are neutered by humans. Like... it's not as though cats will have fewer litters if they get a college education and a career outside the home. A female cat will have 1-2 litters of 1-5 kittens every year, that's just how their lifecycle works.

mehrdadn 6y ago

They're not feral cats, they're stray cats. I found them pretty cute when I watched the video. (Recommend it for those who haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpG0z-npFIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpG0z-npFIY)