5 ms·

The trackpad is still a dealbreaker for me. Nothing I have tried so far comes close to the trackpad on a macbook with the sensitivity turned up to max.

spullara 6y ago
That and at least the Dell keyboards have a key configuration that I can't stand. https://www.dell.com/community/Inspiron/Switching-Fn-and-left-Ctrl-keys/td-p/7350106 https://www.dell.com/community/Inspiron/Switching-Fn-and-lef... Aside from operating system, the actual PC laptop hardware just isn't up to the standards.
- brabel 6y ago
  I agree... switched from a Dell XPS13 that came from factory with Linux to a MacBook Air, and it's been a huge upgrade for me :D despite the fact that on paper, the XPS13 should be a lot more powerful. Every laptop I ever bought that wasn't from Apple (besides Dell, tried Sony, Toshiba and Lenovo - Lenovo was close but still comes short) has been a disappointment.
fsflover 6y ago
Consider supporting this project then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23615218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23615218.
- jez 6y ago
  The saddening thing to me is how low on this list of voted improvements "Better tuned acceleration curve" is. I don't use touchpads, I use mice. That instantly "solves" the first couple problems: I don't need multitouch gestures, and I don't need touchpad palm detection. I understand that from these results I must be in the minority. But man it would be great to have better tuned acceleration curves.
jez 6y ago
+1. I have been able to cope with just about every other part of the Linux desktop experience, but the pointer sensitivity is atrocious. I wouldn't make a big deal of it but it's so obvious every time I do anything in a GUI. I've tried trackpad and corded mice and they're all the same: When I turn the sensitivity down low, it caps the max "flick" speed to be sluggish. When I turn the sensitivity up high, even tiny delicate mouse movements lurch my pointer halfway across the screen. More than anything else, I want a mouse acceleration curve that works like macOS or Windows. Both those operating systems come out of the box good defaults and good configurability. Linux has neither.
folkhack 6y ago
Apple's mouse/trackpad/touch drivers are out of this world. Anecdotally as someone who collects laptops - you can't beat them. There's polish there that doesn't exist on any other solution on the market!
- nonamenoslogan 6y ago
  Agreed. The touchpas on Macbooks are extremely well built and functional--and they have been for years and years.
  - e-brake 6y ago
    +1 Yes, there is no comparison, touchpads are way better on Mac, it's too bad that they have become such poor development machines (docker on mac is a garbage barge)
    - DarmokJalad1701 6y ago
      I use docker-machine on macOS with a custom kernel for SocketCAN support. I use a script for port forwarding and some files to be shared in to get ARM emulation working. It has mostly worked out fine so far.
- 1_player 6y ago
  Apple's trackpad drivers on macOS are out of this world. Apple's trackpad drivers on Boot Camp are absolute ass, pardon the French. Any Boot Camp driver from Apple is garbage, actually (I had tons of issues with my iMac Pro audio drivers on Windows)
vtrips 6y ago
I recently made the jump from a macbook to a thinkpad with linux ubuntu. For gestures - Fusuma (https://github.com/iberianpig/fusuma https://github.com/iberianpig/fusuma) is pretty stable and feels almost entirely like a native macbook
- DarmokJalad1701 6y ago
  Are you able to set up "screens" in linux like what you get with three-finger swipe on macOS?
driverdan 6y ago
Learn to use keyboard shortcuts instead. It's faster than using the trackpad and makes it much less important.
- DarmokJalad1701 6y ago
  I use both. It is significantly faster and more productive for me to use the keyboard and trackpad seamlessly.
- Technically 6y ago
  https://marc.info/?l=9fans&m=111558805207697 https://marc.info/?l=9fans&m=111558805207697
- masklinn 6y ago
  Why do you not want people to use linux?
  - jodrellblank 6y ago
    Linux people don't want you to "not use Linux", they want you to see that wearing a burlap sack is good for your soul, then you'll embrace it wholeheartedly on their terms. The computing world is as tribal as the USA's Red/Blue[1] arrangement, but the origins of the tribes and the polarisation of opinions are as if perfectly tuned to avoid Linux on the Desktop. The people who like Linux for its customizability and modularity see user friendliness as removing options, and prefer the side of more difficult but more configurable. Or wouldn't object to friendliness if there was zero cost, but have no personal need for it and so no interest in supporting it or developing it, or don't believe that's possible. Some crossover here with a certain kind of neuro-atypical who sees a BNF grammar dump as a user friendly help message, and believes Linux already is user friendly. Two of the more vocal sub-tribes are the complexity fetishists and the 37337 hax0r / V for Vendetta user. One takes their sense of self and identity from being visibly clever and able to use Linux and sees people who cannot as inferior morons, the other takes theirs from the counter-culture and sees people who don't use it as pathetic sheep normies. Both vehemently object to the "dumbing down" or "commercialisation" aspects and the accompanying loss of self identity. If anyone can use it, using it isn't a sign of being clever or special; normalising it so your mom could use it would be like making 4chan friendly so your mom could use it, or McDonalds opening a Burning Man stall, or getting Linus Torvalds to tone down his communication style, totally embarassing and unthinkable. Taking away what both groups like about it. Overlaps a lot with the "if it was easier to use, I wouldn't get paid as much to use it, and I'd have to work with morons because only morons like easy to use things" sysadmin sub-tribe. The anti-Microsoft user is another vocal subtype, whose sole reason for decision making is the polar opposite of whatever Microsoft would do. Ease of use is not bad per-se, it's bad because Microsoft claims to value it. NO progress vectors that lead towards Microsoft are allowed, except (curiously) slavishly making cargo-cult copies of surface level Windows dressing hoping to entice the mysterious "users" to come. When they are freed from Microsoft (or Apple), surely they will see the light, accept mud huts and rejoice. The Stylites[2] are principled idealists, if Linus Torvalds can have no interest in GUI distributions, or Richard Stallman can use a Holy text-only system for years, that's what we should aspire to. Ease of use is a sinful temptation towards vice. Say three Hail Mary's, your mantra is "but POSIX" and "The UNIX way". Minimailists join here, change your mantra to "Ed is the standard editor". The least controversial is the pragmatic open source developer, in Mac world they can charge money for small utilities and do and make them nice to use, in Windows world some charge and some are free, in Linux world they can't charge and ease of use and documentation take more effort and time, and nobody is paying for that, so ease is often left as an afterthought. And people who value free-as-in-beer who will put up with anything if it saves a buck, they're already running Linux on hardware they got from eBay, or Windows because it came with their computer, and have no other requirements. Nice would be nice, as long as the 3D effects runs fast on an S3 Virge DX and don't cost money. Also covers people who can't afford alternatives who also live by "Nice would be nice, as long as the 3D effects runs fast on an S3 Virge DX and don't cost money" but for different reasons. Also covers the majority business use - I'm not paying for (a webserver, a database, a fileserver, an IDE, a compiler, etc (but I will pay Oracle licensing)). Less principled idealists. People who object to proprietary corporate things - use of binary blob drivers, companies like Adobe getting involved in offering proprietary software, compromises with media companies about codecs, closed file formats, things that would make Linux on Desktop more palatable but at too high cost. Somewhere in there is a single user who paid for SUSE. On the other tribe sides, people who like simplicity or the appearance of it, people who can and will pay, people who don't mind the norm, people who don't need to show off complexity, people who don't object to proprietariness, the desktop user market, who value convenience and comfort, who are pragmatic, or want to get things done without caring about how, are using macOS, Windows and Chromebooks. Linux on the Desktop depends on Linux becoming something else, taking on characteristics which go against why these tribes gathered in their respective groups in the first place. From the Linux polarised side, the desire isn't for "Linux on the Desktop" but for popularity and approval and good hardware drivers. Much, much better if you change, you can have Linux on the desktop right now, simply deal with video codecs, audio problems, worse trackpad, use a Thinkpad, use keyboard shortcuts, change the software you use, change your values, change your beliefs and your priorities and you will see the Linux Desktop you seek is right here waiting for you, today, you can have it, and better, the suffering is good for you! It doesn't feel like suffering at all, it feels righteous, principled, superior! Windows/macOS users wouldn't object to Linux on the desktop if it was like Windows/macOS, but then again if it was the same, why bother switching, where's the advantage? Neither side wants Linux to change to become a desktop os - one side loses everything, the other side gains nothing. One side wants people to change en-masse, the other side is disinterested in the whole thing. It needs millions of Windows and macOS users to be forced onto Linux against their will, then strive to use their money and effort to make it into the things they've lost, at which point there will be a distro Linux tribes dislike. Or, for Microsoft to make Winux under the business "I'm not paying for that" motivation, which will also result in a distro Linux tribes dislike. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-se... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylite See also: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin... and that Greg Egan story I can't find where people wake up one day with a kind of telepathy where they start to take on the beliefs of the people physically close by, and form local tribes around strong attractor ideas, and the main character is a wanderer trying not to be caught up in one, and it took me years to realise it's not Sci-Fi and is observing how people behave normally without telepathy.
dllthomas 6y ago
It's a very different approach, but for picking I really like keynav. That said, it's poor for dragging, and garbage for expressing relative motion or tracing out paths (although defining that in terms of control points for a curve could be neat...)
abnry 6y ago
What do you think of high end chromebooks?
busterarm 6y ago
Magic Trackpad 2 works pretty flawlessly in Linux. :)

spullara 6y ago

That and at least the Dell keyboards have a key configuration that I can't stand. https://www.dell.com/community/Inspiron/Switching-Fn-and-left-Ctrl-keys/td-p/7350106 https://www.dell.com/community/Inspiron/Switching-Fn-and-lef... Aside from operating system, the actual PC laptop hardware just isn't up to the standards.

brabel 6y ago
I agree... switched from a Dell XPS13 that came from factory with Linux to a MacBook Air, and it's been a huge upgrade for me :D despite the fact that on paper, the XPS13 should be a lot more powerful. Every laptop I ever bought that wasn't from Apple (besides Dell, tried Sony, Toshiba and Lenovo - Lenovo was close but still comes short) has been a disappointment.

fsflover 6y ago

Consider supporting this project then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23615218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23615218.

jez 6y ago
The saddening thing to me is how low on this list of voted improvements "Better tuned acceleration curve" is. I don't use touchpads, I use mice. That instantly "solves" the first couple problems: I don't need multitouch gestures, and I don't need touchpad palm detection. I understand that from these results I must be in the minority. But man it would be great to have better tuned acceleration curves.

jez 6y ago

+1. I have been able to cope with just about every other part of the Linux desktop experience, but the pointer sensitivity is atrocious. I wouldn't make a big deal of it but it's so obvious every time I do anything in a GUI. I've tried trackpad and corded mice and they're all the same: When I turn the sensitivity down low, it caps the max "flick" speed to be sluggish. When I turn the sensitivity up high, even tiny delicate mouse movements lurch my pointer halfway across the screen. More than anything else, I want a mouse acceleration curve that works like macOS or Windows. Both those operating systems come out of the box good defaults and good configurability. Linux has neither.

folkhack 6y ago

Apple's mouse/trackpad/touch drivers are out of this world. Anecdotally as someone who collects laptops - you can't beat them. There's polish there that doesn't exist on any other solution on the market!

nonamenoslogan 6y ago
Agreed. The touchpas on Macbooks are extremely well built and functional--and they have been for years and years.
- e-brake 6y ago
  +1 Yes, there is no comparison, touchpads are way better on Mac, it's too bad that they have become such poor development machines (docker on mac is a garbage barge)
  - DarmokJalad1701 6y ago
    I use docker-machine on macOS with a custom kernel for SocketCAN support. I use a script for port forwarding and some files to be shared in to get ARM emulation working. It has mostly worked out fine so far.
1_player 6y ago
Apple's trackpad drivers on macOS are out of this world. Apple's trackpad drivers on Boot Camp are absolute ass, pardon the French. Any Boot Camp driver from Apple is garbage, actually (I had tons of issues with my iMac Pro audio drivers on Windows)

vtrips 6y ago

I recently made the jump from a macbook to a thinkpad with linux ubuntu. For gestures - Fusuma (https://github.com/iberianpig/fusuma https://github.com/iberianpig/fusuma) is pretty stable and feels almost entirely like a native macbook

DarmokJalad1701 6y ago
Are you able to set up "screens" in linux like what you get with three-finger swipe on macOS?

driverdan 6y ago

Learn to use keyboard shortcuts instead. It's faster than using the trackpad and makes it much less important.

DarmokJalad1701 6y ago
I use both. It is significantly faster and more productive for me to use the keyboard and trackpad seamlessly.
Technically 6y ago
https://marc.info/?l=9fans&m=111558805207697 https://marc.info/?l=9fans&m=111558805207697
masklinn 6y ago
Why do you not want people to use linux?
- jodrellblank 6y ago
  Linux people don't want you to "not use Linux", they want you to see that wearing a burlap sack is good for your soul, then you'll embrace it wholeheartedly on their terms. The computing world is as tribal as the USA's Red/Blue[1] arrangement, but the origins of the tribes and the polarisation of opinions are as if perfectly tuned to avoid Linux on the Desktop. The people who like Linux for its customizability and modularity see user friendliness as removing options, and prefer the side of more difficult but more configurable. Or wouldn't object to friendliness if there was zero cost, but have no personal need for it and so no interest in supporting it or developing it, or don't believe that's possible. Some crossover here with a certain kind of neuro-atypical who sees a BNF grammar dump as a user friendly help message, and believes Linux already is user friendly. Two of the more vocal sub-tribes are the complexity fetishists and the 37337 hax0r / V for Vendetta user. One takes their sense of self and identity from being visibly clever and able to use Linux and sees people who cannot as inferior morons, the other takes theirs from the counter-culture and sees people who don't use it as pathetic sheep normies. Both vehemently object to the "dumbing down" or "commercialisation" aspects and the accompanying loss of self identity. If anyone can use it, using it isn't a sign of being clever or special; normalising it so your mom could use it would be like making 4chan friendly so your mom could use it, or McDonalds opening a Burning Man stall, or getting Linus Torvalds to tone down his communication style, totally embarassing and unthinkable. Taking away what both groups like about it. Overlaps a lot with the "if it was easier to use, I wouldn't get paid as much to use it, and I'd have to work with morons because only morons like easy to use things" sysadmin sub-tribe. The anti-Microsoft user is another vocal subtype, whose sole reason for decision making is the polar opposite of whatever Microsoft would do. Ease of use is not bad per-se, it's bad because Microsoft claims to value it. NO progress vectors that lead towards Microsoft are allowed, except (curiously) slavishly making cargo-cult copies of surface level Windows dressing hoping to entice the mysterious "users" to come. When they are freed from Microsoft (or Apple), surely they will see the light, accept mud huts and rejoice. The Stylites[2] are principled idealists, if Linus Torvalds can have no interest in GUI distributions, or Richard Stallman can use a Holy text-only system for years, that's what we should aspire to. Ease of use is a sinful temptation towards vice. Say three Hail Mary's, your mantra is "but POSIX" and "The UNIX way". Minimailists join here, change your mantra to "Ed is the standard editor". The least controversial is the pragmatic open source developer, in Mac world they can charge money for small utilities and do and make them nice to use, in Windows world some charge and some are free, in Linux world they can't charge and ease of use and documentation take more effort and time, and nobody is paying for that, so ease is often left as an afterthought. And people who value free-as-in-beer who will put up with anything if it saves a buck, they're already running Linux on hardware they got from eBay, or Windows because it came with their computer, and have no other requirements. Nice would be nice, as long as the 3D effects runs fast on an S3 Virge DX and don't cost money. Also covers people who can't afford alternatives who also live by "Nice would be nice, as long as the 3D effects runs fast on an S3 Virge DX and don't cost money" but for different reasons. Also covers the majority business use - I'm not paying for (a webserver, a database, a fileserver, an IDE, a compiler, etc (but I will pay Oracle licensing)). Less principled idealists. People who object to proprietary corporate things - use of binary blob drivers, companies like Adobe getting involved in offering proprietary software, compromises with media companies about codecs, closed file formats, things that would make Linux on Desktop more palatable but at too high cost. Somewhere in there is a single user who paid for SUSE. On the other tribe sides, people who like simplicity or the appearance of it, people who can and will pay, people who don't mind the norm, people who don't need to show off complexity, people who don't object to proprietariness, the desktop user market, who value convenience and comfort, who are pragmatic, or want to get things done without caring about how, are using macOS, Windows and Chromebooks. Linux on the Desktop depends on Linux becoming something else, taking on characteristics which go against why these tribes gathered in their respective groups in the first place. From the Linux polarised side, the desire isn't for "Linux on the Desktop" but for popularity and approval and good hardware drivers. Much, much better if you change, you can have Linux on the desktop right now, simply deal with video codecs, audio problems, worse trackpad, use a Thinkpad, use keyboard shortcuts, change the software you use, change your values, change your beliefs and your priorities and you will see the Linux Desktop you seek is right here waiting for you, today, you can have it, and better, the suffering is good for you! It doesn't feel like suffering at all, it feels righteous, principled, superior! Windows/macOS users wouldn't object to Linux on the desktop if it was like Windows/macOS, but then again if it was the same, why bother switching, where's the advantage? Neither side wants Linux to change to become a desktop os - one side loses everything, the other side gains nothing. One side wants people to change en-masse, the other side is disinterested in the whole thing. It needs millions of Windows and macOS users to be forced onto Linux against their will, then strive to use their money and effort to make it into the things they've lost, at which point there will be a distro Linux tribes dislike. Or, for Microsoft to make Winux under the business "I'm not paying for that" motivation, which will also result in a distro Linux tribes dislike. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-se... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylite See also: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin... and that Greg Egan story I can't find where people wake up one day with a kind of telepathy where they start to take on the beliefs of the people physically close by, and form local tribes around strong attractor ideas, and the main character is a wanderer trying not to be caught up in one, and it took me years to realise it's not Sci-Fi and is observing how people behave normally without telepathy.

dllthomas 6y ago

It's a very different approach, but for picking I really like keynav. That said, it's poor for dragging, and garbage for expressing relative motion or tracing out paths (although defining that in terms of control points for a curve could be neat...)

abnry 6y ago

What do you think of high end chromebooks?

busterarm 6y ago

Magic Trackpad 2 works pretty flawlessly in Linux. :)