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The factions against this kind of government spending also happen to be the same ones who blow up the debt and deficit on tax cuts for the rich when they're in

The factions against this kind of government spending also happen to be the same ones who blow up the debt and deficit on tax cuts for the rich when they're in power, then bang on the table about how it's the most important issue when they're out of power. In approximately 61 days, conservatives in the US will be in an absolute panic about the financial state of the country.

Consultant32452 6y ago
The boomercons in my circle have given up on fiscal responsibility and have now just accepted the fact that we're going to default at some point, so there's no point in fretting about it. It'll be interesting to see if the Congress critters follow suit.
- nwah1 6y ago
  The US debt is denominated in a currency that it is the sovereign issuer of. The US has full ability to pay such debts, at the cost of inflation. Large deficits would be fine if the spending were for investments with a high ROI, such as infrastructure or nuclear power. Indeed, going further into debt for an investment with great ROI makes sense. Regardless of the debt level, a good investment is a good investment. And a bad investment is a bad investment. Alas, most spending of the US federal government isn't an investment of any type.
  - pjmorris 6y ago
    > Alas, most spending of the US federal government isn't an investment of any type. Unless you consider being the sovereign issuer of the world's reserve currency, and the military, civil government, legal system, and property rights behind that to be an investment of some type.
    - nwah1 6y ago
      The majority of spending goes towards pensions, healthcare, education, etc. Education could be an investment but per student spending has tripled over 50 years, yet it would be hard to argue that there is a high marginal return on investment from the extra spending. Same with healthcare. Plenty have noted that the US spends more per capita but has worse outcomes. Seems like there's simultaneously cheaper and more effective approaches out there. Social security is just a transfer payment, but not sustainably structured.
  - roenxi 6y ago
    > The US has full ability to pay such debts, at the cost of inflation. That point could reasonably be interpreted as rather than taking in a dollar and paying back 50 cents, the US has the power to take in an hour of labour and pay back a half hour. And claim that it fulfilled the terms of the agreement. That isn't an improvement. It is nothing more than muddying the waters enough it makes it hard to point out that the situation is no different from a default. Which I suppose is why they do it. There is an amount of stuff in the world at this moment. The US either gives back more stuff than it borrowed, or less. The idea that it can give back less stuff but that is OK because it is a government is a foolish idea. Making it hard to understand who is getting what doesn't magically mean everyone is happy, it just means we only find out who is paying with benefit of hindsight.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > The idea that it can give back less stuff but that is OK because it is a government is a foolish idea. Anyone can pay back less real value if they have terms where the rate of interest is lower than the real rate of inflation. Creditors of a government can mitigate the risk of that happening due to the policies of the debtor government by setting repayment terms other than in fiat currency of the debtor. They often choose not to; heck, in the case of the US, it's happened that they choose to lend despite negative nominal rates, even before inflation.
Chris2048 6y ago
Capitalists?
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  Republicans of course.
newfriend 6y ago
> tax cuts for the rich You mean those who actually pay taxes? The top 10% pays 70% of all federal tax. The most current tax cuts also lowered the brackets in almost all cases, as well as raising the standard deduction. These changes reduced taxes for almost every American. > In approximately 61 days, conservatives in the US will be in an absolute panic about the financial state of the country. As opposed to the last 4 years where democrats in the US were in an absolute panic about everything.
- legolas2412 6y ago
  The truth is that somehow we are conditioned to believe that only income deserves taxation. We have under-taxed wealth so much that there needs to be some equalization.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    That was a great trick that the wealthy pulled, convincing us to jealously despise well-paid workers.
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    It comes in the form of a wealth tax. Instead of sitting on their cash/capital piles they have to do something with it or lose it.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  But they own 95% of the wealth so shouldn't they be paying 95% of the federal taxes?
  - newfriend 6y ago
    It's actually roughly 70% for wealth as well, so I guess it's fair eh? > Deutsche Bank’s Torsten Sløk says that the distribution of household wealth in America has become even more disproportionate over the past decade, with the richest 10% of U.S. households representing 70% of all U.S. wealth in 2018, compared with 60% in 1989, according to a recent study by researchers at the Federal Reserve. [1] [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2019017pap.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2019017pap...
jorblumesea 6y ago
Yes, it's all a game. The minute they're in power, it's spend spend spend. The minute they're out of power, suddenly the deficit is a huge deal. How many actually care about the deficit is questionable, but it's clearly very low.

Consultant32452 6y ago

The boomercons in my circle have given up on fiscal responsibility and have now just accepted the fact that we're going to default at some point, so there's no point in fretting about it. It'll be interesting to see if the Congress critters follow suit.

nwah1 6y ago
The US debt is denominated in a currency that it is the sovereign issuer of. The US has full ability to pay such debts, at the cost of inflation. Large deficits would be fine if the spending were for investments with a high ROI, such as infrastructure or nuclear power. Indeed, going further into debt for an investment with great ROI makes sense. Regardless of the debt level, a good investment is a good investment. And a bad investment is a bad investment. Alas, most spending of the US federal government isn't an investment of any type.
- pjmorris 6y ago
  > Alas, most spending of the US federal government isn't an investment of any type. Unless you consider being the sovereign issuer of the world's reserve currency, and the military, civil government, legal system, and property rights behind that to be an investment of some type.
  - nwah1 6y ago
    The majority of spending goes towards pensions, healthcare, education, etc. Education could be an investment but per student spending has tripled over 50 years, yet it would be hard to argue that there is a high marginal return on investment from the extra spending. Same with healthcare. Plenty have noted that the US spends more per capita but has worse outcomes. Seems like there's simultaneously cheaper and more effective approaches out there. Social security is just a transfer payment, but not sustainably structured.
- roenxi 6y ago
  > The US has full ability to pay such debts, at the cost of inflation. That point could reasonably be interpreted as rather than taking in a dollar and paying back 50 cents, the US has the power to take in an hour of labour and pay back a half hour. And claim that it fulfilled the terms of the agreement. That isn't an improvement. It is nothing more than muddying the waters enough it makes it hard to point out that the situation is no different from a default. Which I suppose is why they do it. There is an amount of stuff in the world at this moment. The US either gives back more stuff than it borrowed, or less. The idea that it can give back less stuff but that is OK because it is a government is a foolish idea. Making it hard to understand who is getting what doesn't magically mean everyone is happy, it just means we only find out who is paying with benefit of hindsight.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > The idea that it can give back less stuff but that is OK because it is a government is a foolish idea. Anyone can pay back less real value if they have terms where the rate of interest is lower than the real rate of inflation. Creditors of a government can mitigate the risk of that happening due to the policies of the debtor government by setting repayment terms other than in fiat currency of the debtor. They often choose not to; heck, in the case of the US, it's happened that they choose to lend despite negative nominal rates, even before inflation.

Chris2048 6y ago

Capitalists?

stjohnswarts 6y ago
Republicans of course.

newfriend 6y ago

> tax cuts for the rich You mean those who actually pay taxes? The top 10% pays 70% of all federal tax. The most current tax cuts also lowered the brackets in almost all cases, as well as raising the standard deduction. These changes reduced taxes for almost every American. > In approximately 61 days, conservatives in the US will be in an absolute panic about the financial state of the country. As opposed to the last 4 years where democrats in the US were in an absolute panic about everything.

legolas2412 6y ago
The truth is that somehow we are conditioned to believe that only income deserves taxation. We have under-taxed wealth so much that there needs to be some equalization.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  That was a great trick that the wealthy pulled, convincing us to jealously despise well-paid workers.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  It comes in the form of a wealth tax. Instead of sitting on their cash/capital piles they have to do something with it or lose it.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
But they own 95% of the wealth so shouldn't they be paying 95% of the federal taxes?
- newfriend 6y ago
  It's actually roughly 70% for wealth as well, so I guess it's fair eh? > Deutsche Bank’s Torsten Sløk says that the distribution of household wealth in America has become even more disproportionate over the past decade, with the richest 10% of U.S. households representing 70% of all U.S. wealth in 2018, compared with 60% in 1989, according to a recent study by researchers at the Federal Reserve. [1] [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2019017pap.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2019017pap...

jorblumesea 6y ago

Yes, it's all a game. The minute they're in power, it's spend spend spend. The minute they're out of power, suddenly the deficit is a huge deal. How many actually care about the deficit is questionable, but it's clearly very low.