4 ms·

don't forget the NIMBYs

mikeyouse 6y ago
I don’t know how anyone can look at the state of corporate America and not be a NIMBY when it comes to a new nuclear plant... which company exists right now that you would trust to run something correctly for the next 50 years and resist the pressure to cut costs as close to the bone as possible..
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- orthecreedence 6y ago
  Why is this downvoted? I wouldn't trust a nuclear power plant run by a private company.
- loeg 6y ago
  The Navy. Semi-serious; they’ve been operating nuclear reactors safely for decades.
  - fnord77 6y ago
    I was skeptical, but it's true https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2008/jun/09/john-mccain/navys-record-unblemished/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2008/jun/09/john-mccai...
- oconnor663 6y ago
  I trust airlines with my life without even thinking about it. Sometimes we even make fun of people who are afraid of flying. Incentives make a big difference here. Ignoring everything else, airlines don't want to lose their hundred million dollar machine in an accident. And the person most directly responsible for the safety of the flight -- the pilot -- is sitting right there in the machine with the rest of us. It's a good arrangement with a long track record. I could imagine corporate-run nuclear plants that have the same incentives as airlines. I could also imagine bad ones, run by Homer Simpson. It probably makes more sense to judge case by case.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Airlines in less developed countries are certainly not as safe as they are in the West. Airlines are also different from power utilities, in that it's very easy to change airlines and not very easy to change grid operators. After Fukushima it's not like consumers could switch to a power utility other than TEPCO.
    - oconnor663 6y ago
      All good points!
    - mikeyouse 6y ago
      Yeah, I had PG&E in mind too when I said "How could you trust anyone in corporate America" -- look at their record even before their equipment burned down 10 million acres in California with the San Bruno explosion since they decided to ignore their own engineers' recommendations on maintenance intervals.
  - rmah 6y ago
    There's a story (probably highly exagerated) I heard about a nuclear power plant being built in china a while back. During construction, flaws were found and it was discovered that inspectors had been bribed to look the other way, etc. The gov ordered that all plant construction executives and crew bosses and their families had to live next to the power plant. Lots more problems were suddenly found but soon it was built and operating safely.
  - _huayra_ 6y ago
    I think people have a lot of suspicion and disdain for corporate ownership of infrastructure. People abhor the windmills of BigEnerCorp that "disrupt" their view, but the same sort of folks in the next town over love their energy cooperative and the ROI of their town-owned windmills or solar farm.
  - CogentHedgehog 6y ago
    Counter-example: the Boeing 737 MAX
  - 6y ago
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- CogentHedgehog 6y ago
  Exactly. Watts Barr in Tennessee just got a big fine from the NRC for safety violations, after trying to lie about an incident to the NRC and firing a whistleblower who reported safety issues. https://news.yahoo.com/federal-utility-fined-900k-nuclear-212434364.html https://news.yahoo.com/federal-utility-fined-900k-nuclear-21... > In a notice dated Nov. 6, regulators noted a “substantial safety culture issue” at Watts Bar at the time of the incident. They also found that “TVA senior management and staff failed to communicate with candor, clarity, and integrity during several interactions with the NRC during the course of the inspection and investigation.” > The incident wasn't recorded in the plant's logbook and managers later misled NRC investigators about what had happened. The shift manager told investigators he wasn't truthful with them at first because he feared that whatever he said would be relayed back to management. > last year, TVA was ordered to rehire and pay thousands of dollars in back pay and compensation to a whistleblower who raised concerns about nuclear safety. And then there was the nuclear corruption scandal in South Korea: https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/22/136020/how-greed-and-corruption-blew-up-south-koreas-nuclear-industry/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/22/136020/how-greed... And let's not forget when a nuclear company literally bribed Ohio politicians with $60M to get a $1Bn+ bailout: https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/07/fbi-agents-deployed-to-ohio-house-speaker-larry-householders-farm-report.html https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/07/fbi-agents-deployed-t...
philipkglass 6y ago
The NIMBY factor constrains where new projects get permits. It doesn't explain why permitted projects that were welcome in local communities still blew out their construction schedules and budgets. The AP1000 fiascoes at VC Summer and Vogtle weren't caused by NIMBY. Nor did NIMBY cause the problems with new European builds of EPRs.

I don’t know how anyone can look at the state of corporate America and not be a NIMBY when it comes to a new nuclear plant... which company exists right now that you would trust to run something correctly for the next 50 years and resist the pressure to cut costs as close to the bone as possible..

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
orthecreedence 6y ago
Why is this downvoted? I wouldn't trust a nuclear power plant run by a private company.
loeg 6y ago
The Navy. Semi-serious; they’ve been operating nuclear reactors safely for decades.
- fnord77 6y ago
  I was skeptical, but it's true https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2008/jun/09/john-mccain/navys-record-unblemished/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2008/jun/09/john-mccai...
oconnor663 6y ago
I trust airlines with my life without even thinking about it. Sometimes we even make fun of people who are afraid of flying. Incentives make a big difference here. Ignoring everything else, airlines don't want to lose their hundred million dollar machine in an accident. And the person most directly responsible for the safety of the flight -- the pilot -- is sitting right there in the machine with the rest of us. It's a good arrangement with a long track record. I could imagine corporate-run nuclear plants that have the same incentives as airlines. I could also imagine bad ones, run by Homer Simpson. It probably makes more sense to judge case by case.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Airlines in less developed countries are certainly not as safe as they are in the West. Airlines are also different from power utilities, in that it's very easy to change airlines and not very easy to change grid operators. After Fukushima it's not like consumers could switch to a power utility other than TEPCO.
  - oconnor663 6y ago
    All good points!
  - mikeyouse 6y ago
    Yeah, I had PG&E in mind too when I said "How could you trust anyone in corporate America" -- look at their record even before their equipment burned down 10 million acres in California with the San Bruno explosion since they decided to ignore their own engineers' recommendations on maintenance intervals.
- rmah 6y ago
  There's a story (probably highly exagerated) I heard about a nuclear power plant being built in china a while back. During construction, flaws were found and it was discovered that inspectors had been bribed to look the other way, etc. The gov ordered that all plant construction executives and crew bosses and their families had to live next to the power plant. Lots more problems were suddenly found but soon it was built and operating safely.
- _huayra_ 6y ago
  I think people have a lot of suspicion and disdain for corporate ownership of infrastructure. People abhor the windmills of BigEnerCorp that "disrupt" their view, but the same sort of folks in the next town over love their energy cooperative and the ROI of their town-owned windmills or solar farm.
- CogentHedgehog 6y ago
  Counter-example: the Boeing 737 MAX
- 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
CogentHedgehog 6y ago
Exactly. Watts Barr in Tennessee just got a big fine from the NRC for safety violations, after trying to lie about an incident to the NRC and firing a whistleblower who reported safety issues. https://news.yahoo.com/federal-utility-fined-900k-nuclear-212434364.html https://news.yahoo.com/federal-utility-fined-900k-nuclear-21... > In a notice dated Nov. 6, regulators noted a “substantial safety culture issue” at Watts Bar at the time of the incident. They also found that “TVA senior management and staff failed to communicate with candor, clarity, and integrity during several interactions with the NRC during the course of the inspection and investigation.” > The incident wasn't recorded in the plant's logbook and managers later misled NRC investigators about what had happened. The shift manager told investigators he wasn't truthful with them at first because he feared that whatever he said would be relayed back to management. > last year, TVA was ordered to rehire and pay thousands of dollars in back pay and compensation to a whistleblower who raised concerns about nuclear safety. And then there was the nuclear corruption scandal in South Korea: https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/22/136020/how-greed-and-corruption-blew-up-south-koreas-nuclear-industry/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/04/22/136020/how-greed... And let's not forget when a nuclear company literally bribed Ohio politicians with $60M to get a $1Bn+ bailout: https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/07/fbi-agents-deployed-to-ohio-house-speaker-larry-householders-farm-report.html https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/07/fbi-agents-deployed-t...

philipkglass 6y ago

The NIMBY factor constrains where new projects get permits. It doesn't explain why permitted projects that were welcome in local communities still blew out their construction schedules and budgets. The AP1000 fiascoes at VC Summer and Vogtle weren't caused by NIMBY. Nor did NIMBY cause the problems with new European builds of EPRs.