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Sounds like a neat bit of kit. For anyone unfamiliar, it's essentially an ARM-powered PC, in the form factor of a keyboard. [0] > I was able to unbrick it I k

Sounds like a neat bit of kit. For anyone unfamiliar, it's essentially an ARM-powered PC, in the form factor of a keyboard. [0] > I was able to unbrick it I know it's a nitpick, but if it can be repaired, it's not bricked. [0] https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400-unit/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400-unit/

kencausey 6y ago
From recent usage of the term 'bricked' here on HN I think those of us who consider bricking to at least require use of JTAG to alleviate to have lost the battle.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  I suspect few people on HN have truly experienced a "bricked" device in their lifetime. To you and me: Static electricity from the carpet discharging into the joystick port of a Commodore 64? Bricked. Yanked a cable from my Raspberry Pi and had to reboot in an unconventional manner? Not bricked.
  - wil421 6y ago
    I thought the same thing about an earlier post when someone said their MacBook Pro with a T2 chip was bricked. Something messed up and they had to use a special boot procedure while they were connected to another Mac to reflash the T2. People were up arms but I call not bricked!
  - sbassi 6y ago
    "Static electricity from the carpet discharging into the joystick port of a Commodore 64" Changing the CIA chip will fix the machine.
    - bigiain 6y ago
      In my head at least, that’s a pretty good determinate of “Bricked” Does it require a soldering iron to fix it? No. Not “bricked” Yes. “bricked” (But I also totally accept that technical people are going to lose the language war here, same as when I used to rant about rc quadcopters not being “drones” since they’re not autonomous.)
      - spijdar 6y ago
        To some people, soldering isn't a big deal. To others, having to do a full drive reformat may be as intimidating as using a soldering iron. Contrast to the second point, where non-autonomous quadrocopters are emphatically not "drones". Unless you consider the IMU and feedback loops that keep it level "autonomous", since it is technically some degree of autonomy... Anyway, I'd be a little more specific and say something is "bricked" when it cannot be repaired with the speaker's skill level or equipment. Ultimate bricking would be frying an IC with e.g. heat or ESD. Good luck removing those few hundred atoms shorting something inside.
taneq 6y ago
Do we really have to have the “bricked is relative” argument again? Edit: To be more constructive, how about a definition for “bricked” as “unable to be recovered by the intended users of the device through reasonably expected efforts.”
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  Seems to me the word has a clear sense of permanence built into it. The term arose because a brick cannot be transformed into functioning electronic equipment. A device is said to be bricked when it is no more useful than a brick. If you drop your smartphone into water, and it shows no signs of life even after a couple of weeks of drying, you've bricked it. The average user is not competent at repair, as that's a specialized skill. They might not know what to do with a laptop if you blanked its SSD, but we wouldn't call that laptop bricked.
  - avmich 6y ago
    > The term arose because a brick cannot be transformed into functioning electronic equipment. This makes term "bricked" somewhat theoretical, as in practice almost any state of electronics can be turned back to functioning. In extreme cases you'll have to replace vital parts (if imagination forbids actually fixing broken microchips with a lab equipment), but in many cases it's still possible.
    - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
      You're essentially using a sorites paradox/Ship of Theseus argument to attack the idea that a piece of electronics can ever, even in principle, be said to be 'permanently broken'. In common usage, we consider 'permanently broken' to be meaningful, we draw the line somewhere reasonable, and don't worry too much about giving a legalistic precise definition. I think my earlier examples stand up ok here. The phone is bricked, and the laptop is not. There may be edge cases where it might not be clear whether we can say whether a device is 'bricked' or not. That's not a problem. There might be an edge case in furniture where it's not clear if it's a chair or a table, but the categories of chair and table are still worth keeping. ...anyway it looks like a promising ARM-based computer ;-P
tartoran 6y ago
In my opinion if the fix is not know at the time it could be considered bricked, at least temporarily until the fix is discovered. How would you called a device that meets a fate like that? Stuck? Blocked? Unaccessible?
- zbrozek 6y ago
  I agree; I think bricked is a fine word for this, even if it's reversible. Once you give up it's permanently bricked.
  - johnklos 6y ago
    Whether you agree or not, it's incorrect. Common usage of "bricked" has been one thing and not the other for many years.
    - lostlogin 6y ago
      If you claimed to have bricked something a hundred years ago everyone would expect a wall. Meanings change.
      - reaperducer 6y ago
        You're illustrating a chance in context, not a change in meaning.
        lostlogin 6y ago
        Does this not assume that ‘bricked’ means walled out and entry is blocked? The word appears to originate from the idea that a device has been turned into a brick. This seems a new meaning to me, as ‘bricked’ isn’t a word that previously meant ‘to turn the thing into a brick’. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/488450/etymology-bricked-to-render-an-electronic-device-inoperable https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/488450/etymology... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick_(electronics) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick_(electronics)

kencausey 6y ago

From recent usage of the term 'bricked' here on HN I think those of us who consider bricking to at least require use of JTAG to alleviate to have lost the battle.

reaperducer 6y ago
I suspect few people on HN have truly experienced a "bricked" device in their lifetime. To you and me: Static electricity from the carpet discharging into the joystick port of a Commodore 64? Bricked. Yanked a cable from my Raspberry Pi and had to reboot in an unconventional manner? Not bricked.
- wil421 6y ago
  I thought the same thing about an earlier post when someone said their MacBook Pro with a T2 chip was bricked. Something messed up and they had to use a special boot procedure while they were connected to another Mac to reflash the T2. People were up arms but I call not bricked!
- sbassi 6y ago
  "Static electricity from the carpet discharging into the joystick port of a Commodore 64" Changing the CIA chip will fix the machine.
  - bigiain 6y ago
    In my head at least, that’s a pretty good determinate of “Bricked” Does it require a soldering iron to fix it? No. Not “bricked” Yes. “bricked” (But I also totally accept that technical people are going to lose the language war here, same as when I used to rant about rc quadcopters not being “drones” since they’re not autonomous.)
    - spijdar 6y ago
      To some people, soldering isn't a big deal. To others, having to do a full drive reformat may be as intimidating as using a soldering iron. Contrast to the second point, where non-autonomous quadrocopters are emphatically not "drones". Unless you consider the IMU and feedback loops that keep it level "autonomous", since it is technically some degree of autonomy... Anyway, I'd be a little more specific and say something is "bricked" when it cannot be repaired with the speaker's skill level or equipment. Ultimate bricking would be frying an IC with e.g. heat or ESD. Good luck removing those few hundred atoms shorting something inside.

taneq 6y ago

Do we really have to have the “bricked is relative” argument again? Edit: To be more constructive, how about a definition for “bricked” as “unable to be recovered by the intended users of the device through reasonably expected efforts.”

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
Seems to me the word has a clear sense of permanence built into it. The term arose because a brick cannot be transformed into functioning electronic equipment. A device is said to be bricked when it is no more useful than a brick. If you drop your smartphone into water, and it shows no signs of life even after a couple of weeks of drying, you've bricked it. The average user is not competent at repair, as that's a specialized skill. They might not know what to do with a laptop if you blanked its SSD, but we wouldn't call that laptop bricked.
- avmich 6y ago
  > The term arose because a brick cannot be transformed into functioning electronic equipment. This makes term "bricked" somewhat theoretical, as in practice almost any state of electronics can be turned back to functioning. In extreme cases you'll have to replace vital parts (if imagination forbids actually fixing broken microchips with a lab equipment), but in many cases it's still possible.
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    You're essentially using a sorites paradox/Ship of Theseus argument to attack the idea that a piece of electronics can ever, even in principle, be said to be 'permanently broken'. In common usage, we consider 'permanently broken' to be meaningful, we draw the line somewhere reasonable, and don't worry too much about giving a legalistic precise definition. I think my earlier examples stand up ok here. The phone is bricked, and the laptop is not. There may be edge cases where it might not be clear whether we can say whether a device is 'bricked' or not. That's not a problem. There might be an edge case in furniture where it's not clear if it's a chair or a table, but the categories of chair and table are still worth keeping. ...anyway it looks like a promising ARM-based computer ;-P

tartoran 6y ago

In my opinion if the fix is not know at the time it could be considered bricked, at least temporarily until the fix is discovered. How would you called a device that meets a fate like that? Stuck? Blocked? Unaccessible?

zbrozek 6y ago
I agree; I think bricked is a fine word for this, even if it's reversible. Once you give up it's permanently bricked.
- johnklos 6y ago
  Whether you agree or not, it's incorrect. Common usage of "bricked" has been one thing and not the other for many years.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    If you claimed to have bricked something a hundred years ago everyone would expect a wall. Meanings change.
    - reaperducer 6y ago
      You're illustrating a chance in context, not a change in meaning.
      - lostlogin 6y ago
        Does this not assume that ‘bricked’ means walled out and entry is blocked? The word appears to originate from the idea that a device has been turned into a brick. This seems a new meaning to me, as ‘bricked’ isn’t a word that previously meant ‘to turn the thing into a brick’. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/488450/etymology-bricked-to-render-an-electronic-device-inoperable https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/488450/etymology... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick_(electronics) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick_(electronics)