4 ms·

-Great great news. Can't wait to get the needle in the arm ASAP. -Seems extremely effective at limiting covid disease. -Very curious as to how long will the v

-Great great news. Can't wait to get the needle in the arm ASAP. -Seems extremely effective at limiting covid disease. -Very curious as to how long will the vaccine immunity will last? -Seems with the second dose for 18-55 year olds, perhaps 75% will feel fatigue, 50% have chills and 20% will have a fever.[1] This hasn't been widely shared yet and I'm a bit concerned how the public will react. -Safety: Given the huge trial size, we can be pretty confident that there aren't any significant negative short term effects. But yet the phase three trials will follow the participants for two years. Presumably, this is to find out about longer term safety+efficacy... but yet of course we will be vaccinating most of the world prior to the end of those two years. How are we confident that these vaccines don't cause any long term safety concerns? Other vaccines have been pulled from the market for safety reasons - what happened in those cases that we're sure won't happen in this case? I think given the fact that "anti-vaxxers" exist makes some people take the complete opposite position to distance themselves from the conspiracy theorists- "anything a doctor injects in your arm is safe". Of course the truth is that injecting stuff in people's arms is not always safe - which is why we have trials. Were these trials long enough to know with a high level of confidence if there are any long term effects of the vaccines? [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33053279/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33053279/

nojito 6y ago
>Other vaccines have been pulled from the market for safety reasons This isn't true at all. There has been 2 voluntary recalls due to manufacturing issues which not led to any health problems.
- tuna-piano 6y ago
  I don't believe that's an accurate statement. Problems have been rare, but not unheard of. A list here for the US (most of the listed vaccines on the page were later found not concerning): https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.... -The results of the investigations showed that RotaShield vaccine caused intussusception in some healthy infants younger than 12 months of age who normally would be at low risk for this condition... the manufacturer voluntarily withdrew RotaShield from the market in October 1999. -...that people who received the 1976 swine influenza vaccine had an increased risk for developing GBS . -And the very recent Dengue vaccine made by Sanofi, which was given to 700k people. "Sanofi had found evidence that the vaccine increases the risk of hospitalization and cytoplasmic leakage syndrome in children who had no prior exposure to dengue, regardless of age."[1][2] [1]https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/719037789/botched-vaccine-launch-has-deadly-repercussions https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/7190377... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengvaxia_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengvaxia_controversy
- fy20 6y ago
  It's worth thinking about how many more people will die without the vaccine as well. The RotaSheild vaccine had major side effects 1 or 2 out of 10000 people, that's better than the current estimate death rate of COVID-19.
  - tuna-piano 6y ago
    Agree for short term effects, even for young people. Due to the trial size, I think we can be confident that if there are any short-term safety issues with this vaccine they are extremely rare. 1,769 people 25-34 have died of Covid this year. There are 23m people in that age range. .0077% have died. If the vaccine had an adverse effect at a similar rate as covid has killed young people, we'd expect it should have showed in the trials in 1-3 people.
Jaruzel 6y ago
Seems with the second dose for 18-55 year olds, perhaps 75% will feel fatigue, 50% have chills and 20% will have a fever.[1] This hasn't been widely shared yet and I'm a bit concerned how the public will react. Isn't the Flu vaccine side effects the same though?
- tuna-piano 6y ago
  Looks like for fever, flue vaccine is more like 1-2%. So maybe 10-20x more fever with this vaccine than flu vaccine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/flu-shot-facts/2020/09/25/7794c1d0-f8ef-11ea-89e3-4b9efa36dc64_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/flu-shot-facts/2020/09...
  - jackschultz 6y ago
    Nah depends on what fever means. I got my flu shot this year, and I didn't have a fever, but felt like garbage for a day and a half where it was a struggle to have energy to do much of anything. Fever != feeling crappy.
    - tuna-piano 6y ago
      Ya, the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine appears to make a pretty large majority of younger people feel fatigue. a safe vaccine does not mean a fun vaccine.
Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
Not sure why you are being downvoted. Those are legitimate concerns. This vaccine has only been tested for a small number of months. We simply don't know whether it is safe long-term and what exact statistical level of safety it has. This is not some quasi-scientific bullshit about energies, these are simple medical facts. We have not been testing them. Testing is the only scientific method that matters. I don't think anyone is saying that we should never sell any vaccine before it has been tested for 100+ years, that's obviously impossible. But to ignore obvious concerns is just religious scientifism in the worst possible sense. These are good concerns for any medication.
- tuna-piano 6y ago
  My theory is that anti vaxxers have poisoned the public conversation (if you say anything questioning a vaccine you shall be shunned). I plan to get this vaccine and generally trust our scientific institutions. But of course there are legitimate safety concerns with injecting stuff into people - which is why they ran a huge study to show that there are no short term safety concerns. I'm just asking (not implying anything) a real medical question I don't know the answer to - how do we know this vaccine doesn't increase the chances of some condition 20 years later when the median time people have been vaccinated is two months? And with a brand new vaccine platform that has never been used before...
  - bluGill 6y ago
    We have learned a lot about how the human body works. There is no plausible way that there could be something bad: the vaccine breaks down in the way RNA does withing minutes of entering the body. If anything bad happens because of RNA breakdown: you wouldn't have been born as RNA is basic to cell biology and breaks down as part of normal processes all the time. The first mRNA vaccine went to phase 1 trials more than 10 years, which means we have a few people walking around who got a mRNA vaccine more than 10 years ago - if they got a side effect it wouldn't be noted. The sample size is of course too small, and it was a different vaccine, but there some long term safety data. Anything is possible. My physics teachers like to point out that all the air in the room can teleport to the moon - but the odds of that are too low to worry about, even on the time frame of the universe.

nojito 6y ago

>Other vaccines have been pulled from the market for safety reasons This isn't true at all. There has been 2 voluntary recalls due to manufacturing issues which not led to any health problems.

tuna-piano 6y ago
I don't believe that's an accurate statement. Problems have been rare, but not unheard of. A list here for the US (most of the listed vaccines on the page were later found not concerning): https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.... -The results of the investigations showed that RotaShield vaccine caused intussusception in some healthy infants younger than 12 months of age who normally would be at low risk for this condition... the manufacturer voluntarily withdrew RotaShield from the market in October 1999. -...that people who received the 1976 swine influenza vaccine had an increased risk for developing GBS . -And the very recent Dengue vaccine made by Sanofi, which was given to 700k people. "Sanofi had found evidence that the vaccine increases the risk of hospitalization and cytoplasmic leakage syndrome in children who had no prior exposure to dengue, regardless of age."[1][2] [1]https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/719037789/botched-vaccine-launch-has-deadly-repercussions https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/7190377... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengvaxia_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengvaxia_controversy
fy20 6y ago
It's worth thinking about how many more people will die without the vaccine as well. The RotaSheild vaccine had major side effects 1 or 2 out of 10000 people, that's better than the current estimate death rate of COVID-19.
- tuna-piano 6y ago
  Agree for short term effects, even for young people. Due to the trial size, I think we can be confident that if there are any short-term safety issues with this vaccine they are extremely rare. 1,769 people 25-34 have died of Covid this year. There are 23m people in that age range. .0077% have died. If the vaccine had an adverse effect at a similar rate as covid has killed young people, we'd expect it should have showed in the trials in 1-3 people.

Jaruzel 6y ago

Seems with the second dose for 18-55 year olds, perhaps 75% will feel fatigue, 50% have chills and 20% will have a fever.[1] This hasn't been widely shared yet and I'm a bit concerned how the public will react. Isn't the Flu vaccine side effects the same though?

tuna-piano 6y ago
Looks like for fever, flue vaccine is more like 1-2%. So maybe 10-20x more fever with this vaccine than flu vaccine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/flu-shot-facts/2020/09/25/7794c1d0-f8ef-11ea-89e3-4b9efa36dc64_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/flu-shot-facts/2020/09...
- jackschultz 6y ago
  Nah depends on what fever means. I got my flu shot this year, and I didn't have a fever, but felt like garbage for a day and a half where it was a struggle to have energy to do much of anything. Fever != feeling crappy.
  - tuna-piano 6y ago
    Ya, the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine appears to make a pretty large majority of younger people feel fatigue. a safe vaccine does not mean a fun vaccine.

Erlich_Bachman 6y ago

Not sure why you are being downvoted. Those are legitimate concerns. This vaccine has only been tested for a small number of months. We simply don't know whether it is safe long-term and what exact statistical level of safety it has. This is not some quasi-scientific bullshit about energies, these are simple medical facts. We have not been testing them. Testing is the only scientific method that matters. I don't think anyone is saying that we should never sell any vaccine before it has been tested for 100+ years, that's obviously impossible. But to ignore obvious concerns is just religious scientifism in the worst possible sense. These are good concerns for any medication.

tuna-piano 6y ago
My theory is that anti vaxxers have poisoned the public conversation (if you say anything questioning a vaccine you shall be shunned). I plan to get this vaccine and generally trust our scientific institutions. But of course there are legitimate safety concerns with injecting stuff into people - which is why they ran a huge study to show that there are no short term safety concerns. I'm just asking (not implying anything) a real medical question I don't know the answer to - how do we know this vaccine doesn't increase the chances of some condition 20 years later when the median time people have been vaccinated is two months? And with a brand new vaccine platform that has never been used before...
- bluGill 6y ago
  We have learned a lot about how the human body works. There is no plausible way that there could be something bad: the vaccine breaks down in the way RNA does withing minutes of entering the body. If anything bad happens because of RNA breakdown: you wouldn't have been born as RNA is basic to cell biology and breaks down as part of normal processes all the time. The first mRNA vaccine went to phase 1 trials more than 10 years, which means we have a few people walking around who got a mRNA vaccine more than 10 years ago - if they got a side effect it wouldn't be noted. The sample size is of course too small, and it was a different vaccine, but there some long term safety data. Anything is possible. My physics teachers like to point out that all the air in the room can teleport to the moon - but the odds of that are too low to worry about, even on the time frame of the universe.