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No need to do any of that if people adopt a Layer-2 solution like Lightning. Also, no one is happy about the energy consumption and the centralization of miner

No need to do any of that if people adopt a Layer-2 solution like Lightning. Also, no one is happy about the energy consumption and the centralization of miners in China and subsidized dirty plants, which makes an eventual change to a Proof-of-Stake protocol likely as it matures. When we get to that point, are you going to start using crypto or are you just going to find another reason to bash it?

arcticbull 6y ago
Lightning is vaporware, it’s been coming for 5 years, it’s not coming. A layer 2 network does not require Bitcoin you can tie any asset to it. Gold works just fine. Bitcoin is actively user hostile, has a worse wealth distribution than any banana republic, the majority of it is in the control of criminals and shady actors, no I don’t want them to be the wealthiest people on earth while the rest of us fight for scraps. Currencies benefit from their ability to respond to shock, and to the addition of new market actors. Deflation only serves to entrench existing wealth. There’s literally nothing to like about crypto. Nothing. People deserve better than what you’re shilling.
- rglullis 6y ago
  > the majority of it is in the control of criminals and shady actors, Crime, corruption and fight for power exists independently of what people use for currency. "Criminals and shady actors" also control significant amounts of paper money yet you are not here trying to argue against people to use paper money, right? > I don’t want them to be the wealthiest people on earth while the rest of us fight for scraps. Are you living in North America or the Euro zone? Then you are already top dog, dude. > Deflation only serves to entrench existing wealth Do the existing inflationary policies are helping out in reducing inequality? Who were the greatest beneficiaries of these recent stimulus packages, QE, etc? > There’s literally nothing to like about crypto. I'm pretty sure there are, you just don't want to acknowledge it. But most importantly, the question that I pose to every perennial-crypto-critic: Do you think that the status quo is the best that we can do? If yes, have you stopped to look at all the existing issues with the global financial system and can you honestly make a case that they are all insurmountable problems? If no, do you accept that we need to have people experimenting with alternatives?
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    The wealthiest people in crypto are all criminals down to satoshi who is likely Paul Le Roux. “If you’re living in North America or the euro zone you’re probably top dog” What? I’m saying that the overwhelming majority of Bitcoin is owned by a small cluster of criminals and everyone else has to fight for scraps of the chain. Those people aren’t who should be wealthy in the new world order. That’s not better than the existing system, it’s worse, and we deserve better. “Do existing financial policies help reduce inequality” It requires a combination of fiscal and monetary policy but I do know that moving to deflationary strictly makes the problem worse by rewarding people who sit on money and don’t move it. I reiterate there’s nothing to like about crypto. It’s all hot garbage. Is the existing system better? 100 times yes. Is the existing system perfect? Lord no. But I don’t think we should replace it with something strictly worse for the sake of a change. We all saw how 2016 played out. I’m in no rush to 2016 our money.
    - rglullis 6y ago
      I don't want get into a technical argument here, because clearly you are arguing with the amygdala now. The one thing that I'd like to point out is that most of your arguments are either exclusive to Bitcoin (not crypto) and/or a social-economic-political issue that has nothing to do with the technology of crypto or blockchain. Take your speculation of the identity of Satoshi. Let's say it's Le Roux. So what? First, he is in jail, which is more that we can say about a lot of other Criminal Lords. Second, having a bitcoin stash does not get him out of there. Third, even if you pull the "he can use his stash to order bad things to happen" argument you know that the same thing would be true if he was in control of a gold stash or a Swiss account. Lastly, even if managed to get out and managed to prove that he was Satoshi, he would not be a leader of a "new world order" were his ethics and morality would suddenly be glorified. Also, you confusing Bitcoin with crypto leads to the interesting position where you sound both as a Bitcoin maxi and a Buttcoiner. Case in point: if you are right about "small cluster of criminals owning a lot of Bitcoin", there will be no need to "fight for scraps of the chain". What will happen is simply is that those will start using another chain. When Tether does go out in flames (which I am with you and I hope they do as soon as possible), Ethereum will go on. Fuck, even if you are against ETH you can still use ETC, so where is the part that people are being forced to adopt one chain over another? To sum up: don't throw the baby with the bathwater. It's not because Bitcoin at this point in time has a lot of issues that crypto/blockchain should be considered "all hot garbage". Your attitude is reactionary and leaves no room for any kind of change.

arcticbull 6y ago

Lightning is vaporware, it’s been coming for 5 years, it’s not coming. A layer 2 network does not require Bitcoin you can tie any asset to it. Gold works just fine. Bitcoin is actively user hostile, has a worse wealth distribution than any banana republic, the majority of it is in the control of criminals and shady actors, no I don’t want them to be the wealthiest people on earth while the rest of us fight for scraps. Currencies benefit from their ability to respond to shock, and to the addition of new market actors. Deflation only serves to entrench existing wealth. There’s literally nothing to like about crypto. Nothing. People deserve better than what you’re shilling.

rglullis 6y ago
> the majority of it is in the control of criminals and shady actors, Crime, corruption and fight for power exists independently of what people use for currency. "Criminals and shady actors" also control significant amounts of paper money yet you are not here trying to argue against people to use paper money, right? > I don’t want them to be the wealthiest people on earth while the rest of us fight for scraps. Are you living in North America or the Euro zone? Then you are already top dog, dude. > Deflation only serves to entrench existing wealth Do the existing inflationary policies are helping out in reducing inequality? Who were the greatest beneficiaries of these recent stimulus packages, QE, etc? > There’s literally nothing to like about crypto. I'm pretty sure there are, you just don't want to acknowledge it. But most importantly, the question that I pose to every perennial-crypto-critic: Do you think that the status quo is the best that we can do? If yes, have you stopped to look at all the existing issues with the global financial system and can you honestly make a case that they are all insurmountable problems? If no, do you accept that we need to have people experimenting with alternatives?
- arcticbull 6y ago
  The wealthiest people in crypto are all criminals down to satoshi who is likely Paul Le Roux. “If you’re living in North America or the euro zone you’re probably top dog” What? I’m saying that the overwhelming majority of Bitcoin is owned by a small cluster of criminals and everyone else has to fight for scraps of the chain. Those people aren’t who should be wealthy in the new world order. That’s not better than the existing system, it’s worse, and we deserve better. “Do existing financial policies help reduce inequality” It requires a combination of fiscal and monetary policy but I do know that moving to deflationary strictly makes the problem worse by rewarding people who sit on money and don’t move it. I reiterate there’s nothing to like about crypto. It’s all hot garbage. Is the existing system better? 100 times yes. Is the existing system perfect? Lord no. But I don’t think we should replace it with something strictly worse for the sake of a change. We all saw how 2016 played out. I’m in no rush to 2016 our money.
  - rglullis 6y ago
    I don't want get into a technical argument here, because clearly you are arguing with the amygdala now. The one thing that I'd like to point out is that most of your arguments are either exclusive to Bitcoin (not crypto) and/or a social-economic-political issue that has nothing to do with the technology of crypto or blockchain. Take your speculation of the identity of Satoshi. Let's say it's Le Roux. So what? First, he is in jail, which is more that we can say about a lot of other Criminal Lords. Second, having a bitcoin stash does not get him out of there. Third, even if you pull the "he can use his stash to order bad things to happen" argument you know that the same thing would be true if he was in control of a gold stash or a Swiss account. Lastly, even if managed to get out and managed to prove that he was Satoshi, he would not be a leader of a "new world order" were his ethics and morality would suddenly be glorified. Also, you confusing Bitcoin with crypto leads to the interesting position where you sound both as a Bitcoin maxi and a Buttcoiner. Case in point: if you are right about "small cluster of criminals owning a lot of Bitcoin", there will be no need to "fight for scraps of the chain". What will happen is simply is that those will start using another chain. When Tether does go out in flames (which I am with you and I hope they do as soon as possible), Ethereum will go on. Fuck, even if you are against ETH you can still use ETC, so where is the part that people are being forced to adopt one chain over another? To sum up: don't throw the baby with the bathwater. It's not because Bitcoin at this point in time has a lot of issues that crypto/blockchain should be considered "all hot garbage". Your attitude is reactionary and leaves no room for any kind of change.