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How many servers are powering banking mainframes, VISA and Mastercard services? It's not wasteful if it's providing transactional security. Just for perspecti

by 0xy 6y ago

How many servers are powering banking mainframes, VISA and Mastercard services? It's not wasteful if it's providing transactional security. Just for perspective, there are THREE MILLION ATMs globally. And that's just ATMs, totally ignoring the infrastructure for the 60,000+ global banking institutions.

arcticbull 6y ago
Well an easy way to know this makes no sense is that if you scaled up Bitcoin power consumption to visas current transaction volume it would require more power than the entire world produces and generate more e-waste than the entire world put together. Then multiplied a few times in both cases.
- 0xy 6y ago
  Increasing the block size does not require a linear increase in mining capacity so this is incorrect.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Great so let’s just dial it up! Easy! When does it take effect? Right yeah, it doesn’t, and it won’t for all the same reasons it hasn’t yet. Including ideological zealotry about how you should be able to download the entire blockchain onto a USB drive. Among many other reasons.
    - 0xy 6y ago
      If it won't take effect then your energy analogy is absurdism. You can't hold opposite views.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        You misunderstood when I asked "when does it take effect" I meant when will they go ahead and make that change, then followed up with the assertion that they will not ever make that change and therefore this feature isn't particularly relevant.
- rglullis 6y ago
  No need to do any of that if people adopt a Layer-2 solution like Lightning. Also, no one is happy about the energy consumption and the centralization of miners in China and subsidized dirty plants, which makes an eventual change to a Proof-of-Stake protocol likely as it matures. When we get to that point, are you going to start using crypto or are you just going to find another reason to bash it?
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Lightning is vaporware, it’s been coming for 5 years, it’s not coming. A layer 2 network does not require Bitcoin you can tie any asset to it. Gold works just fine. Bitcoin is actively user hostile, has a worse wealth distribution than any banana republic, the majority of it is in the control of criminals and shady actors, no I don’t want them to be the wealthiest people on earth while the rest of us fight for scraps. Currencies benefit from their ability to respond to shock, and to the addition of new market actors. Deflation only serves to entrench existing wealth. There’s literally nothing to like about crypto. Nothing. People deserve better than what you’re shilling.
    - rglullis 6y ago
      > the majority of it is in the control of criminals and shady actors, Crime, corruption and fight for power exists independently of what people use for currency. "Criminals and shady actors" also control significant amounts of paper money yet you are not here trying to argue against people to use paper money, right? > I don’t want them to be the wealthiest people on earth while the rest of us fight for scraps. Are you living in North America or the Euro zone? Then you are already top dog, dude. > Deflation only serves to entrench existing wealth Do the existing inflationary policies are helping out in reducing inequality? Who were the greatest beneficiaries of these recent stimulus packages, QE, etc? > There’s literally nothing to like about crypto. I'm pretty sure there are, you just don't want to acknowledge it. But most importantly, the question that I pose to every perennial-crypto-critic: Do you think that the status quo is the best that we can do? If yes, have you stopped to look at all the existing issues with the global financial system and can you honestly make a case that they are all insurmountable problems? If no, do you accept that we need to have people experimenting with alternatives?

by 0xy 6y ago

arcticbull 6y ago

Well an easy way to know this makes no sense is that if you scaled up Bitcoin power consumption to visas current transaction volume it would require more power than the entire world produces and generate more e-waste than the entire world put together. Then multiplied a few times in both cases.

0xy 6y ago
Increasing the block size does not require a linear increase in mining capacity so this is incorrect.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Great so let’s just dial it up! Easy! When does it take effect? Right yeah, it doesn’t, and it won’t for all the same reasons it hasn’t yet. Including ideological zealotry about how you should be able to download the entire blockchain onto a USB drive. Among many other reasons.
  - 0xy 6y ago
    If it won't take effect then your energy analogy is absurdism. You can't hold opposite views.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      You misunderstood when I asked "when does it take effect" I meant when will they go ahead and make that change, then followed up with the assertion that they will not ever make that change and therefore this feature isn't particularly relevant.
rglullis 6y ago
No need to do any of that if people adopt a Layer-2 solution like Lightning. Also, no one is happy about the energy consumption and the centralization of miners in China and subsidized dirty plants, which makes an eventual change to a Proof-of-Stake protocol likely as it matures. When we get to that point, are you going to start using crypto or are you just going to find another reason to bash it?
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Lightning is vaporware, it’s been coming for 5 years, it’s not coming. A layer 2 network does not require Bitcoin you can tie any asset to it. Gold works just fine. Bitcoin is actively user hostile, has a worse wealth distribution than any banana republic, the majority of it is in the control of criminals and shady actors, no I don’t want them to be the wealthiest people on earth while the rest of us fight for scraps. Currencies benefit from their ability to respond to shock, and to the addition of new market actors. Deflation only serves to entrench existing wealth. There’s literally nothing to like about crypto. Nothing. People deserve better than what you’re shilling.
  - rglullis 6y ago
    > the majority of it is in the control of criminals and shady actors, Crime, corruption and fight for power exists independently of what people use for currency. "Criminals and shady actors" also control significant amounts of paper money yet you are not here trying to argue against people to use paper money, right? > I don’t want them to be the wealthiest people on earth while the rest of us fight for scraps. Are you living in North America or the Euro zone? Then you are already top dog, dude. > Deflation only serves to entrench existing wealth Do the existing inflationary policies are helping out in reducing inequality? Who were the greatest beneficiaries of these recent stimulus packages, QE, etc? > There’s literally nothing to like about crypto. I'm pretty sure there are, you just don't want to acknowledge it. But most importantly, the question that I pose to every perennial-crypto-critic: Do you think that the status quo is the best that we can do? If yes, have you stopped to look at all the existing issues with the global financial system and can you honestly make a case that they are all insurmountable problems? If no, do you accept that we need to have people experimenting with alternatives?