6 ms·

Can someone ELI5 what this library is useful for?

Lichtso 6y ago
So far there have been two ways to to heavy compute tasks on GPUs: CUDA (Nvidia only) and OpenCL (all vendors). Nvidia invested a lot in software and toolchains to make CUDA the go to option for many projects (especially in the machine learning community). Meanwhile OpenCL is falling apart and sees less and less support and updates. However, the Vulkan API which is also supported by most vendors (except Apple where you have to use a compatibility layer called MoltenVK) is gaining traction in the compute sector. If you trust the benchmarks, then this library here is showing that you can get a similar performance out of Vulkan compute than what you would expect from CUDA. It is just that this library only provides a very small fraction of the features of what the CUDA ecosystem does, so the Vulkan compute ecosystem still has a lot catching up to do. Edit: In case it is not obvious from the title, the library is used to calculate the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Fourier_transform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Fourier_transform
- enriquto 6y ago
  I'm fascinated, and at the same time slightly troubled, by your usage of the word "compute".
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    Why? Parts of the industry focused on computing data as opposed to storing it, or retrieving it. Do you think there aren’t people who do this or do you use another word?
    - enriquto 6y ago
      It's a weird word. Grammatically, it is a verb. But people use it as a noun (and sometimes even as an adjective). This usage seems relatively modern, the same concept was called differently just a few years ago.
      - quietbritishjim 6y ago
        It's an annoying but very common habit, especially but not exclusively in US English. You might be more familiar with the habit of referring to "an invite" instead of "an invitation" or "a quote" instead of "a quotation", which fit the same pattern of "compute" instead of "computation". There's even "the big reveal" instead of "the big revelation" - using "revelation" would likely confuse many people, who would assume it was exclusively religious.
        enriquto 6y ago
        I'm more familiar with the practice of verbing nouns and adjectives, which is very common (a famous Calvin&Hobbes strip ends with the punchline "verbing weirds language"). The opposite practice of nouning verbs has a very different feeling; I'd say it's almost pedantic, or very dry; not as lively as verbing, for sure.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        I think it’s just short for computation rather than being ‘nouning’.
  - Ballas 6y ago
    I'm sure he is referring to "Vulcan Compute" as analogous to OpenGL compute [shaders].
- matthiasv 6y ago
  > Meanwhile OpenCL is falling apart and sees less and less support and updates. I think this view is too pessimistic. In fact, support either gets better (Intel oneAPI, Microsoft CLonD3D12, AMD ROCm, Mesa NIR-clover, …) or is unchanged but still maintained (NVIDIA). Moreover, Khronos noticed that OpenCL 2.x was a dead end and was to start over from a point that all vendors could agree on.
  - quietbritishjim 6y ago
    > Moreover, Khronos noticed that OpenCL 2.x was a dead end and was to start over from a point that all vendors could agree on. I don't know much about OpenCL and this statement confused me. Are you saying that OpenCL 2.x is dead, which seems to contradict what you just said? Unless there's a newer version that isn't dead - is there an OpenCL 3.x? Or is Kronos a code name for OpenCL 3?
    - T-A 6y ago
      https://www.khronos.org/blog/opencl-3.0-specification-finalized-and-initial-khronos-open-source-opencl-sdk-released https://www.khronos.org/blog/opencl-3.0-specification-finali... https://www.khronos.org/about/ https://www.khronos.org/about/
      - quietbritishjim 6y ago
        OK, I see. So they were referring to OpenCL 3.x, and Kronos is the organisation that created that standard.
    - rrss 6y ago
      There is an OpenCL 3.0. The changes were basically "make everything in OpenCL 2.0 that was not widely implemented optional." > Looking to reset the ecosystem, as the group likes to call it, today Khronos is revealing OpenCL 3.0, the latest version of their compute API. Taking some hard earned (and hard learned) lessons to heart, the group is turning back the clock on OpenCL, reverting the core API to a fork of OpenCL 1.2. > As a result, everything developed as part of OpenCL 2.x has now become optional: vendors can (and generally will) continue to support those features, but those features are no longer required for compliance with the core specification. https://www.anandtech.com/show/15746/opencl-30-announced-hitting-reset-on-compute-frameworks https://www.anandtech.com/show/15746/opencl-30-announced-hit...

So far there have been two ways to to heavy compute tasks on GPUs: CUDA (Nvidia only) and OpenCL (all vendors). Nvidia invested a lot in software and toolchains to make CUDA the go to option for many projects (especially in the machine learning community). Meanwhile OpenCL is falling apart and sees less and less support and updates. However, the Vulkan API which is also supported by most vendors (except Apple where you have to use a compatibility layer called MoltenVK) is gaining traction in the compute sector. If you trust the benchmarks, then this library here is showing that you can get a similar performance out of Vulkan compute than what you would expect from CUDA. It is just that this library only provides a very small fraction of the features of what the CUDA ecosystem does, so the Vulkan compute ecosystem still has a lot catching up to do. Edit: In case it is not obvious from the title, the library is used to calculate the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Fourier_transform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Fourier_transform

enriquto 6y ago
I'm fascinated, and at the same time slightly troubled, by your usage of the word "compute".
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Why? Parts of the industry focused on computing data as opposed to storing it, or retrieving it. Do you think there aren’t people who do this or do you use another word?
  - enriquto 6y ago
    It's a weird word. Grammatically, it is a verb. But people use it as a noun (and sometimes even as an adjective). This usage seems relatively modern, the same concept was called differently just a few years ago.
    - quietbritishjim 6y ago
      It's an annoying but very common habit, especially but not exclusively in US English. You might be more familiar with the habit of referring to "an invite" instead of "an invitation" or "a quote" instead of "a quotation", which fit the same pattern of "compute" instead of "computation". There's even "the big reveal" instead of "the big revelation" - using "revelation" would likely confuse many people, who would assume it was exclusively religious.
      - enriquto 6y ago
        I'm more familiar with the practice of verbing nouns and adjectives, which is very common (a famous Calvin&Hobbes strip ends with the punchline "verbing weirds language"). The opposite practice of nouning verbs has a very different feeling; I'd say it's almost pedantic, or very dry; not as lively as verbing, for sure.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        I think it’s just short for computation rather than being ‘nouning’.
- Ballas 6y ago
  I'm sure he is referring to "Vulcan Compute" as analogous to OpenGL compute [shaders].
matthiasv 6y ago
> Meanwhile OpenCL is falling apart and sees less and less support and updates. I think this view is too pessimistic. In fact, support either gets better (Intel oneAPI, Microsoft CLonD3D12, AMD ROCm, Mesa NIR-clover, …) or is unchanged but still maintained (NVIDIA). Moreover, Khronos noticed that OpenCL 2.x was a dead end and was to start over from a point that all vendors could agree on.
- quietbritishjim 6y ago
  > Moreover, Khronos noticed that OpenCL 2.x was a dead end and was to start over from a point that all vendors could agree on. I don't know much about OpenCL and this statement confused me. Are you saying that OpenCL 2.x is dead, which seems to contradict what you just said? Unless there's a newer version that isn't dead - is there an OpenCL 3.x? Or is Kronos a code name for OpenCL 3?
  - T-A 6y ago
    https://www.khronos.org/blog/opencl-3.0-specification-finalized-and-initial-khronos-open-source-opencl-sdk-released https://www.khronos.org/blog/opencl-3.0-specification-finali... https://www.khronos.org/about/ https://www.khronos.org/about/
    - quietbritishjim 6y ago
      OK, I see. So they were referring to OpenCL 3.x, and Kronos is the organisation that created that standard.
  - rrss 6y ago
    There is an OpenCL 3.0. The changes were basically "make everything in OpenCL 2.0 that was not widely implemented optional." > Looking to reset the ecosystem, as the group likes to call it, today Khronos is revealing OpenCL 3.0, the latest version of their compute API. Taking some hard earned (and hard learned) lessons to heart, the group is turning back the clock on OpenCL, reverting the core API to a fork of OpenCL 1.2. > As a result, everything developed as part of OpenCL 2.x has now become optional: vendors can (and generally will) continue to support those features, but those features are no longer required for compliance with the core specification. https://www.anandtech.com/show/15746/opencl-30-announced-hitting-reset-on-compute-frameworks https://www.anandtech.com/show/15746/opencl-30-announced-hit...