3 ms·

Can we get some courts to step in PLEASE? How can anyone think this is ok?

smt88 6y ago
Courts have already stepped in many times, including the US Supreme Court. There is over 100 years' worth of case law upholding a state's right to restrict movement during emergencies[1], explicitly including pandemics. This curfew in CA also allows people to go to work, walk dogs, take care of medical needs, etc. It appears to be mostly targeted at going out and drinking. Considering we all share the same hospital systems and scarce medical resources, it's reasonable to expect people to uphold their end of the social contract by giving up a few months of nightlife. 1. https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2020/youraba-april-2020/law-guides-legal-approach-to-pandemic/ https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/yourab...
uberman 6y ago
Why would a court step in? This is and has been law for decades. Federally the government has explicitly ceded emergency movement control (curfews being one form) to the states citing pandemics as a form of emergency. The California State Constitution states that the state and even local governments can impose curfews, again explicitly citing pandemics as a form of emergency that would trigger this authority. https://www.caloes.ca.gov/PlanningPreparednessSite/Documents/Legal%20Guidelines%20for%20Controlling%20Movement%20People%20Property%20(FEAT%20doc).pdf https://www.caloes.ca.gov/PlanningPreparednessSite/Documents...
- recallgavinnow 6y ago
  The keyword here is emergency dood. It's been what - more than 8 months now?!
  - uberman 6y ago
    ============= The conditions that cause an emergency may be natural or human caused. For example, the California Emergency Services Act specifically enumerates the following conditions:  air pollution,  fire,  flood,  storm,  epidemic,  riot ============= See item 5
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    The longest-running current US national state of emergency, unless I am missing another one, has been active since 1979, which is more than 40 years.
  - smt88 6y ago
    2,000 Americans dying every day is an emergency. Hospitals filling up and running out of supplies is an emergency. Not all emergencies are short-lived or sudden.
    - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
      > 2,000 Americans dying every day is an emergency Isn't every day of existence an emergency then? There's something like 8,000 deaths a day in US under normal conditions. And I'm sure you could trace a very large portion of those to either smoking, chronic disease that reflects voluntary lifestyle decisions, etc.
      - smt88 6y ago
        > Isn't every day of existence an emergency then? If deaths were the only metric used to determine an emergency (as in the government declaring a state of emergency), then yes. There are absolutely people in public health who say that diabetes is an emergency, but it's not something that has the potential to grow exponentially based on whether the government exerts special powers or not. Covid is worthy of a government declaring a state of emergency because it is spreadable, unpredictable, unexpected, deadly, and extremely costly to treat. No other major cause of death (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, accidents) is comparable.
        gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
        > No other major cause of death (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, accidents) is comparable. I’m sure all of those cost much more given they’ve been going on for decades.

Courts have already stepped in many times, including the US Supreme Court. There is over 100 years' worth of case law upholding a state's right to restrict movement during emergencies[1], explicitly including pandemics. This curfew in CA also allows people to go to work, walk dogs, take care of medical needs, etc. It appears to be mostly targeted at going out and drinking. Considering we all share the same hospital systems and scarce medical resources, it's reasonable to expect people to uphold their end of the social contract by giving up a few months of nightlife. 1. https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2020/youraba-april-2020/law-guides-legal-approach-to-pandemic/ https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/yourab...

uberman 6y ago

Why would a court step in? This is and has been law for decades. Federally the government has explicitly ceded emergency movement control (curfews being one form) to the states citing pandemics as a form of emergency. The California State Constitution states that the state and even local governments can impose curfews, again explicitly citing pandemics as a form of emergency that would trigger this authority. https://www.caloes.ca.gov/PlanningPreparednessSite/Documents/Legal%20Guidelines%20for%20Controlling%20Movement%20People%20Property%20(FEAT%20doc).pdf https://www.caloes.ca.gov/PlanningPreparednessSite/Documents...

recallgavinnow 6y ago
The keyword here is emergency dood. It's been what - more than 8 months now?!
- uberman 6y ago
  ============= The conditions that cause an emergency may be natural or human caused. For example, the California Emergency Services Act specifically enumerates the following conditions:  air pollution,  fire,  flood,  storm,  epidemic,  riot ============= See item 5
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  The longest-running current US national state of emergency, unless I am missing another one, has been active since 1979, which is more than 40 years.
- smt88 6y ago
  2,000 Americans dying every day is an emergency. Hospitals filling up and running out of supplies is an emergency. Not all emergencies are short-lived or sudden.
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    > 2,000 Americans dying every day is an emergency Isn't every day of existence an emergency then? There's something like 8,000 deaths a day in US under normal conditions. And I'm sure you could trace a very large portion of those to either smoking, chronic disease that reflects voluntary lifestyle decisions, etc.
    - smt88 6y ago
      > Isn't every day of existence an emergency then? If deaths were the only metric used to determine an emergency (as in the government declaring a state of emergency), then yes. There are absolutely people in public health who say that diabetes is an emergency, but it's not something that has the potential to grow exponentially based on whether the government exerts special powers or not. Covid is worthy of a government declaring a state of emergency because it is spreadable, unpredictable, unexpected, deadly, and extremely costly to treat. No other major cause of death (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, accidents) is comparable.
      - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
        > No other major cause of death (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, accidents) is comparable. I’m sure all of those cost much more given they’ve been going on for decades.