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What in the hell is Russiagate? If you're referring to Russia actively interfering with American elections through a pointed and state sponsored disinformation

What in the hell is Russiagate? If you're referring to Russia actively interfering with American elections through a pointed and state sponsored disinformation campaign that continues to this day... then that's not a narrative? That's a thing that's happening that matters and is one of the principle sources of bad actors behind this very article

thehappypm 6y ago
Russiagate is basically the idea that the Trump campaign was working closely with Russia to "cheat" the 2016 election. The Mueller report showed.. Russia was messing around for sure, but the Trump campaign wasn't really involved in any meaningful way.
- jellicle 6y ago
  On the contrary, the Mueller report showed that the Trump campaign was working quite closely with Russian actors in a wide variety of ways, and at the very top of the campaign. https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guide-to-the-mueller-reports-findings-on-collusion/ https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guide-to-the-mueller-repo...
  - thehappypm 6y ago
    I mean, the New York Times headline itself said "Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy".
- _jal 6y ago
  That is incorrect. The Mueller report clearly showed a great deal of coordination, and could not reach accusations because of limits placed on the investigation. A Mueller investigation with different parameters would have reached very different conclusions.
  - dtho 6y ago
    Is it fair to assassinate someone's character by suggesting to millions of people that this someone is a criminal when they have not been found guilty in the court of law?
    - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
      Like inciting crowds to chant "Lock her up!"?
      - dtho 6y ago
        Yes.
  - thehappypm 6y ago
    Perhaps do some research? A key takeaway of the Mueller report was that there was no collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. I mean, here's a New York Times article, which as everyone knows, is not fond of Trump and does not hold punches: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/us/politics/mueller-report-summary.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/us/politics/mueller-repor... Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice charges, but that's not what this thread is about, we're talking about Russia.
    - jellicle 6y ago
      That is not a key takeaway of the report, which found about 140 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives. Mueller repeatedly and specifically said he was not investigating Trump on any criminal charges since he was bound by the opinion of the DOJ that a sitting President cannot be indicted and therefore there were no charges that could be pursued, even if Trump shot someone live on TV.
      - thehappypm 6y ago
        That was regarding the obstruction of justice charge. The New York Times article headline itself said "Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy". This is not some fringe conspiracy theory here. Don't get your news from Reddit.
- brohoolio 6y ago
  How many people from that campaign are felons now?
  - spacemanmatt 6y ago
    To be sure, they were felons before the campaign, but now they're convicted felons.
- omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
  Are we reading the same report? There was definitely meaningful involvement by the Trump campaign in Russia's efforts to undermine the 2016 election. One example... 5. June 9, 2016 Meeting at Trump Tower On June 9, 2016, senior representatives of the Trump Campaign met in Trump Tower with a Russian attorney expecting to receive derogatory information about Hillary Clinton from the Russian government. The meeting was proposed to Donald Trump Jr. in an email from Robert Goldstone, at the request of his then-client Emin Agalarov, the son of Russian real-estate developer Aras Agalarov. Goldstone relayed to Trump Jr. that the “Crown prosecutor of Russia . . . offered to provide the Trump Campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia” as “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.” Trump Jr. immediately responded that “if it’s what you say I love it,” and arranged the meeting through a series of emails and telephone calls. At the same time, that wasn't enough evidence to charge most members of the Trump campaign under existing laws. C. Russian Government Outreach and Contacts As explained in Section IV above, the Office’s investigation uncovered evidence of numerous links (i.e., contacts) between Trump Campaign officials and individuals having or claiming to have ties to the Russian government. The Office evaluated the contacts under several sets of federal laws, including conspiracy laws and statutes governing foreign agents who operate in the United States. After considering the available evidence, the Office did not pursue charges under these statutes against any of the individuals discussed in Section IV above—with the exception of FARA charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates based on their activities on behalf of Ukraine. https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
  - Nacdor 6y ago
    It's pretty hilarious that you picked the Trump Tower meeting as one of the most incriminating parts of the Mueller report: > The centerpiece of the Trump/Russia conspiracy – the Trump Tower meeting – was such a dud that Jared Kushner, halfway through the meeting, texted Manafort to declare the meeting “a waste of time,” and then instructed his assistant to call him so that he could concoct a reason to leave. https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/ https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-m...
deleted 6y ago
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lucian1900 6y ago
There’s no conclusive evidence of that. On the other hand, there’s overwhelming proof of the US interfering in the politics of other countries, from coups to invasions. Especially in Russia in the early 90s. And several coup attempts just this year.
kev_da_dev 6y ago
"Russiagate", as I perceive it, refers to the four-year narrative pushed by the collective media that Donald Trump himself colluded with Russians in order to steal the 2016 election, among other things. Taxpayers funded a multi-month, multi-millionaire special counsel to investigate these claims. Nothing came of it.
- ttesttom 6y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b71f2eYdTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b71f2eYdTc
  - kev_da_dev 6y ago
    mate why didn't Mueller arrest him then
nickysielicki 6y ago
To play devil's advocate, Hunter Biden allegedly left his laptop at a repair shop in Delaware, and an alarming amount of former intelligence officials came out and bizarrely stated that, in spite of having no evidence of it, they believed there was Russian involvement. [1] If that's not setting off bullshit alarm bells in your head, I don't think anything will. No, it's not reasonable to believe that Russia is responsible for someone leaving their private property at a repair shop. But people eat that garbage up because they like to hear it. So much so that it even was seriously mentioned in one of the debates. That doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense. Republicans have not-so-fringe QAnon and Dominiongate weirdos. They're insane. Democrats have not-so-fringe Russia conspiracy theorists. They're dumb. The only way to narrow the whole spectrum of misinformation is to call things fairly when we see them. Nothing is ever going to get solved unless people are able to critique the fringe of their own side as strongly as they critique the fringe of the other side. [1]: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-...
trap_chateau 6y ago
Adding to this, a plug for the senate intelligence committee's report on russian campaign and interference in the 2016 election: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/docu...
deleted 6y ago
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Nacdor 6y ago
It's the 2-year, $35 million investigation that didn't indict a single person for colluding with Russia to influence the election: https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/ https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-m... > But certain facts will never go away no matter how much denial they embrace. The sweeping Mueller investigation ended with zero indictments of zero Americans for conspiring with Russia over the 2016 election. Both Donald Trump, Jr. and Jared Kushner – the key participants in the Trump Tower meeting – testified for hours and hours yet were never charged for perjury, lying or obstruction, even though Mueller proved how easily he would indict anyone who lied as part of the investigation. And this massive investigation simply did not establish any of the conspiracy theories that huge parts of the Democratic Party, the intelligence community and the U.S. media spent years encouraging the public to believe.
- sjg007 6y ago
  There were plenty of indictments and convictions: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/breakdown-indictments-cases-muellers-probe/story?id=61219489 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/breakdown-indictments-cases-...

thehappypm 6y ago

Russiagate is basically the idea that the Trump campaign was working closely with Russia to "cheat" the 2016 election. The Mueller report showed.. Russia was messing around for sure, but the Trump campaign wasn't really involved in any meaningful way.

jellicle 6y ago
On the contrary, the Mueller report showed that the Trump campaign was working quite closely with Russian actors in a wide variety of ways, and at the very top of the campaign. https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guide-to-the-mueller-reports-findings-on-collusion/ https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guide-to-the-mueller-repo...
- thehappypm 6y ago
  I mean, the New York Times headline itself said "Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy".
_jal 6y ago
That is incorrect. The Mueller report clearly showed a great deal of coordination, and could not reach accusations because of limits placed on the investigation. A Mueller investigation with different parameters would have reached very different conclusions.
- dtho 6y ago
  Is it fair to assassinate someone's character by suggesting to millions of people that this someone is a criminal when they have not been found guilty in the court of law?
  - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
    Like inciting crowds to chant "Lock her up!"?
    - dtho 6y ago
      Yes.
- thehappypm 6y ago
  Perhaps do some research? A key takeaway of the Mueller report was that there was no collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. I mean, here's a New York Times article, which as everyone knows, is not fond of Trump and does not hold punches: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/us/politics/mueller-report-summary.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/us/politics/mueller-repor... Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice charges, but that's not what this thread is about, we're talking about Russia.
  - jellicle 6y ago
    That is not a key takeaway of the report, which found about 140 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives. Mueller repeatedly and specifically said he was not investigating Trump on any criminal charges since he was bound by the opinion of the DOJ that a sitting President cannot be indicted and therefore there were no charges that could be pursued, even if Trump shot someone live on TV.
    - thehappypm 6y ago
      That was regarding the obstruction of justice charge. The New York Times article headline itself said "Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy". This is not some fringe conspiracy theory here. Don't get your news from Reddit.
brohoolio 6y ago
How many people from that campaign are felons now?
- spacemanmatt 6y ago
  To be sure, they were felons before the campaign, but now they're convicted felons.
omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
Are we reading the same report? There was definitely meaningful involvement by the Trump campaign in Russia's efforts to undermine the 2016 election. One example... 5. June 9, 2016 Meeting at Trump Tower On June 9, 2016, senior representatives of the Trump Campaign met in Trump Tower with a Russian attorney expecting to receive derogatory information about Hillary Clinton from the Russian government. The meeting was proposed to Donald Trump Jr. in an email from Robert Goldstone, at the request of his then-client Emin Agalarov, the son of Russian real-estate developer Aras Agalarov. Goldstone relayed to Trump Jr. that the “Crown prosecutor of Russia . . . offered to provide the Trump Campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia” as “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.” Trump Jr. immediately responded that “if it’s what you say I love it,” and arranged the meeting through a series of emails and telephone calls. At the same time, that wasn't enough evidence to charge most members of the Trump campaign under existing laws. C. Russian Government Outreach and Contacts As explained in Section IV above, the Office’s investigation uncovered evidence of numerous links (i.e., contacts) between Trump Campaign officials and individuals having or claiming to have ties to the Russian government. The Office evaluated the contacts under several sets of federal laws, including conspiracy laws and statutes governing foreign agents who operate in the United States. After considering the available evidence, the Office did not pursue charges under these statutes against any of the individuals discussed in Section IV above—with the exception of FARA charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates based on their activities on behalf of Ukraine. https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
- Nacdor 6y ago
  It's pretty hilarious that you picked the Trump Tower meeting as one of the most incriminating parts of the Mueller report: > The centerpiece of the Trump/Russia conspiracy – the Trump Tower meeting – was such a dud that Jared Kushner, halfway through the meeting, texted Manafort to declare the meeting “a waste of time,” and then instructed his assistant to call him so that he could concoct a reason to leave. https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/ https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-m...

deleted 6y ago

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lucian1900 6y ago

There’s no conclusive evidence of that. On the other hand, there’s overwhelming proof of the US interfering in the politics of other countries, from coups to invasions. Especially in Russia in the early 90s. And several coup attempts just this year.

kev_da_dev 6y ago

"Russiagate", as I perceive it, refers to the four-year narrative pushed by the collective media that Donald Trump himself colluded with Russians in order to steal the 2016 election, among other things. Taxpayers funded a multi-month, multi-millionaire special counsel to investigate these claims. Nothing came of it.

ttesttom 6y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b71f2eYdTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b71f2eYdTc
- kev_da_dev 6y ago
  mate why didn't Mueller arrest him then

nickysielicki 6y ago

To play devil's advocate, Hunter Biden allegedly left his laptop at a repair shop in Delaware, and an alarming amount of former intelligence officials came out and bizarrely stated that, in spite of having no evidence of it, they believed there was Russian involvement. [1] If that's not setting off bullshit alarm bells in your head, I don't think anything will. No, it's not reasonable to believe that Russia is responsible for someone leaving their private property at a repair shop. But people eat that garbage up because they like to hear it. So much so that it even was seriously mentioned in one of the debates. That doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense. Republicans have not-so-fringe QAnon and Dominiongate weirdos. They're insane. Democrats have not-so-fringe Russia conspiracy theorists. They're dumb. The only way to narrow the whole spectrum of misinformation is to call things fairly when we see them. Nothing is ever going to get solved unless people are able to critique the fringe of their own side as strongly as they critique the fringe of the other side. [1]: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-...

trap_chateau 6y ago

Adding to this, a plug for the senate intelligence committee's report on russian campaign and interference in the 2016 election: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/docu...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Nacdor 6y ago

It's the 2-year, $35 million investigation that didn't indict a single person for colluding with Russia to influence the election: https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/ https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-m... > But certain facts will never go away no matter how much denial they embrace. The sweeping Mueller investigation ended with zero indictments of zero Americans for conspiring with Russia over the 2016 election. Both Donald Trump, Jr. and Jared Kushner – the key participants in the Trump Tower meeting – testified for hours and hours yet were never charged for perjury, lying or obstruction, even though Mueller proved how easily he would indict anyone who lied as part of the investigation. And this massive investigation simply did not establish any of the conspiracy theories that huge parts of the Democratic Party, the intelligence community and the U.S. media spent years encouraging the public to believe.

sjg007 6y ago
There were plenty of indictments and convictions: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/breakdown-indictments-cases-muellers-probe/story?id=61219489 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/breakdown-indictments-cases-...