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> Tree-style comments are not the best format for every type of discussion. I've found that they work well for discussions where there are several subtopics.

by u801e 6y ago

> Tree-style comments are not the best format for every type of discussion. I've found that they work well for discussions where there are several subtopics. Under what scenerio would this format not be considered the best format?

hombre_fatal 6y ago
Long-running discussions. The lifespan of a Reddit/HN submission is basically a day. Past that point and it's unlikely anyone will even read your comment. In such cases, a traditional forum's bumping system lets you pick up timeless conversations for new people to take part of. So many times an archived Reddit thread will show up in Google results and it's sad that I can't contribute to the discussion nor will anyone read it if I could.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Long while ago I noticed that on slashdot all the top rated comments by people with high karma were universally trash. And the best comments were made by some anonymous coward a few days after everyone else had moved on.
- mft_ 6y ago
  Not sure I understand - in your example, isn’t it the archiving that’s to blame, rather than the tree/threaded format? In more traditional forums (e.g. VBB) one effectively replicates the tree format through quoting - just without the tree being so clearly displayed.
  - Sharlin 6y ago
    In tree-format discussion, new replies disappear into the depths of subtrees, whereas in a linear thread they're always at the bottom and easily marked as new. There should be a way to somehow switch between the formats.
    - mft_ 6y ago
      Fair point - thanks.
    - jlokier 6y ago
      Some forums do both at the same time, which can be nice. E.g. showing every comment linearly with time, but each comment that has replies also has a "show replies" link which expands when clicked to show the replies as children. Those replies are the same comments shown later in the linear list; it's just a convenient alternate way of showing them on request in context.
- seppel 6y ago
  But that's an UI/UX problem. I had extremly long running usenet discussions back then. My usenet reader was giving me a tree view of all topics were I could: * See all news messages since the last time. I could see all the threads, news messages were marked in bold. * Cycle through them, i.e. show me next unread. * Make whole threads as read (when the topic is not interesting to me) * Ignore a thread or subthread (when it's going offtopic or completely uninteresting to me) And it was also super easy to filter out idiots, without anyone moderating the stuff.
  - u801e 6y ago
    > And it was also super easy to filter out idiots, without anyone moderating the stuff. That's one thing I've found lacking in practically any single forum out there. IMO, client side moderation is the best kind of moderation. That said, it can be daunting to a newcomer if the signal-to-noise ratio of a group is rather low due to numerous trolls, cross-posters, etc and they don't have their killfile set up yet.
- u801e 6y ago
  I guess it depends on the forum. On usenet, many threads would last for weeks, if not months. The reader I used (Thunderbird and its ancestors) would sort threads based on which one had the most recent reply. Given the indexed view of the thread, it was pretty easy to find the new replies and continue existing discussions.
- account42 6y ago
  There are two problems here, one is reddit preventing new comments on old posts, which is not inherehent to tree-style threads. The other is that trees make it harder to keep up with ongoing discussions as you can no logner just continue reading from where the thread was at when you last visited. Reddit actually has an OK solution for that which highlights new comments since your last visit(s) but it is only available to moderators or paid users. Another possible solution would be a better notification system - with forums you can typically watch a thread to get notifications for any posts but with Reddit you only get notfications for direct comments to your post/comment.
pbuzbee 6y ago
Any thread where the discussion isn't expected to splinter into subtopics, and the newest posts have more value than the 'best' post. One example might be a non-trivial tech support problem, where forum members work together to solve an issue. As the user tries solutions and posts their progress, the initial post isn't as valuable as the latest one. Other examples would include threads with real-time reactions to events, like a sporting event or political debate, or threads that are longer-running, like telling a story that unfolds over time.
- u801e 6y ago
  > Any thread where the discussion isn't expected to splinter into subtopics But most longer running discussions will splinter into subtopics. If the discussion is short enough, the way it's displayed doesn't really matter either way. > Other examples would include threads with real-time reactions to events, like a sporting event or political debate I think the line between a mostly synchronous chat and an asynchronous discussion forum as been blurred a bit. In chat, it's a lot easier to follow a discussion as it's happening because you can read the messages as they come in and only pay attention to the ones you're interested in. But trying to read the log after the fact is a bit more time consuming because you have to search for the relevant messages amongst many. In a threaded and asynchronous discussion, it's easier to go down a subthread to follow a particular discussion than it is to find that discussion mixed in with all the other posts. That said, I find it interesting that email clients have moved towards displaying messages in a conversation view, yet newer chat clients like Slack are introducing threaded discussiion as a feature.

by u801e 6y ago

hombre_fatal 6y ago

Long-running discussions. The lifespan of a Reddit/HN submission is basically a day. Past that point and it's unlikely anyone will even read your comment. In such cases, a traditional forum's bumping system lets you pick up timeless conversations for new people to take part of. So many times an archived Reddit thread will show up in Google results and it's sad that I can't contribute to the discussion nor will anyone read it if I could.

Gibbon1 6y ago
Long while ago I noticed that on slashdot all the top rated comments by people with high karma were universally trash. And the best comments were made by some anonymous coward a few days after everyone else had moved on.
mft_ 6y ago
Not sure I understand - in your example, isn’t it the archiving that’s to blame, rather than the tree/threaded format? In more traditional forums (e.g. VBB) one effectively replicates the tree format through quoting - just without the tree being so clearly displayed.
- Sharlin 6y ago
  In tree-format discussion, new replies disappear into the depths of subtrees, whereas in a linear thread they're always at the bottom and easily marked as new. There should be a way to somehow switch between the formats.
  - mft_ 6y ago
    Fair point - thanks.
  - jlokier 6y ago
    Some forums do both at the same time, which can be nice. E.g. showing every comment linearly with time, but each comment that has replies also has a "show replies" link which expands when clicked to show the replies as children. Those replies are the same comments shown later in the linear list; it's just a convenient alternate way of showing them on request in context.
seppel 6y ago
But that's an UI/UX problem. I had extremly long running usenet discussions back then. My usenet reader was giving me a tree view of all topics were I could: * See all news messages since the last time. I could see all the threads, news messages were marked in bold. * Cycle through them, i.e. show me next unread. * Make whole threads as read (when the topic is not interesting to me) * Ignore a thread or subthread (when it's going offtopic or completely uninteresting to me) And it was also super easy to filter out idiots, without anyone moderating the stuff.
- u801e 6y ago
  > And it was also super easy to filter out idiots, without anyone moderating the stuff. That's one thing I've found lacking in practically any single forum out there. IMO, client side moderation is the best kind of moderation. That said, it can be daunting to a newcomer if the signal-to-noise ratio of a group is rather low due to numerous trolls, cross-posters, etc and they don't have their killfile set up yet.
u801e 6y ago
I guess it depends on the forum. On usenet, many threads would last for weeks, if not months. The reader I used (Thunderbird and its ancestors) would sort threads based on which one had the most recent reply. Given the indexed view of the thread, it was pretty easy to find the new replies and continue existing discussions.
account42 6y ago
There are two problems here, one is reddit preventing new comments on old posts, which is not inherehent to tree-style threads. The other is that trees make it harder to keep up with ongoing discussions as you can no logner just continue reading from where the thread was at when you last visited. Reddit actually has an OK solution for that which highlights new comments since your last visit(s) but it is only available to moderators or paid users. Another possible solution would be a better notification system - with forums you can typically watch a thread to get notifications for any posts but with Reddit you only get notfications for direct comments to your post/comment.

pbuzbee 6y ago

Any thread where the discussion isn't expected to splinter into subtopics, and the newest posts have more value than the 'best' post. One example might be a non-trivial tech support problem, where forum members work together to solve an issue. As the user tries solutions and posts their progress, the initial post isn't as valuable as the latest one. Other examples would include threads with real-time reactions to events, like a sporting event or political debate, or threads that are longer-running, like telling a story that unfolds over time.

u801e 6y ago
> Any thread where the discussion isn't expected to splinter into subtopics But most longer running discussions will splinter into subtopics. If the discussion is short enough, the way it's displayed doesn't really matter either way. > Other examples would include threads with real-time reactions to events, like a sporting event or political debate I think the line between a mostly synchronous chat and an asynchronous discussion forum as been blurred a bit. In chat, it's a lot easier to follow a discussion as it's happening because you can read the messages as they come in and only pay attention to the ones you're interested in. But trying to read the log after the fact is a bit more time consuming because you have to search for the relevant messages amongst many. In a threaded and asynchronous discussion, it's easier to go down a subthread to follow a particular discussion than it is to find that discussion mixed in with all the other posts. That said, I find it interesting that email clients have moved towards displaying messages in a conversation view, yet newer chat clients like Slack are introducing threaded discussiion as a feature.