3 ms·

Not to be crude, but the whole sexual education debate is fairly analogous here. We can teach people to abstain completely, or we can teach them how to do thin

Not to be crude, but the whole sexual education debate is fairly analogous here. We can teach people to abstain completely, or we can teach them how to do things safely. It's pretty settled on which works better to prevent unwanted consequences.

raziel2p 6y ago
One might argue there is no safe method in this case. There are enough stories of people who did as much as they thought they could and still ended up infected. Can't really be compared to condoms for example, which have a fraction of a fraction of a chance to break.
acwan93 6y ago
That's my initial thought as well. Abstaining from sex (or contact in the context of the pandemic) is a near impossibility for mental health, societal/economic benefit, and just human nature, so it's better to teach how to do so safely. I fear that there's a large subset of the population who won't follow safe practices unless you scare them with text like "don't visit your friends/family".
dragontamer 6y ago
Condoms are 95% effective. Masks are only 60%. The only methodology that's anywhere close to 95% effective is a vaccine. Furthermore, you can't wear a mask while eating, and its too cold outside now to hold an outdoor dinner. If you have a combination of methodologies that reaches 95% efficacy, feel free to tell the world. But mask-up, social distanced (6-feet apart) and all that is only partially effective at controlling the virus. And such conditions are unlikely to be kept during a Thanksgiving party (especially if alcohol is involved)
- Zenst 6y ago
  Certainly gives some perspective into peoples ability and limitations of controls/tools available. Best will in the World, stuff is goona happen and STD rates would give an insight. Be interesting in years to come to mine the COVID infection rate data and contrast against STD spread trends and see if any correlation geography. I'm looking at crime rates in area's and infection spreads and whilst nothing hard, it certainly does seem to have some correlation. The more likely an area is to have people prepared to break laws, the more chance people won't respect the laws/rules/advice for spread. So certainly much to be learned, but like driving - you can follow all the rules and drive perfectly, it's always the other person who does not that crashes into you. Just case of managing the flow like a production line and not seeing hospital capacity bottleneck, which seems to be the case in every country in the production line of normal life. So a mass risk increase all in short window of time is one heck of a sudden spike risk that could really jam up and backlog the bottleneck and have a knock-on effect that will not bode well. This all happening in a country with leadership in a bumpy transition phase and potentially a perfect storm. I'd hate to think though that the head of the CDC wasn't prepared to do an outright internal flight travel ban or harder notice statement for fear of upsetting the current president and getting twitter sacked and classed as a communist for not protecting American values. But for me and possibly others - I can see how that may well be plausible, so there is that in the back of my mind, can't deny that thought and do hope I'm wide of the mark even though it is a doubt I can't dismiss. But politics and health are never good bedfellows.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  > too cold outside now to hold an outdoor dinner. If it was good enough for the Peanuts, it's good enough for us with appropriate clothing. :D
munificent 6y ago
Sex is a biological imperative entrenched in our DNA through countless generations of evolutionary selection all the way back to the dawn of sexual reproduction millions of years ago. Thanksgiving is an American secular holiday about eating turkey.
- mizzack 6y ago
  Family and social relationships are not entrenched in our DNA?
  - munificent 6y ago
    Sure, they are. But Thanksgiving is only one minor manifestation of that. Abstinence-only education is likely doomed to failure because you can't expect people to resist all possible sexual urges. But you could reasonably effectively get people to, say, abstain from having sex at Thanksgiving dinner.
- quicklyfrozen 6y ago
  Being social and connected with our family unit is also deeply embedded in our DNA.

raziel2p 6y ago

One might argue there is no safe method in this case. There are enough stories of people who did as much as they thought they could and still ended up infected. Can't really be compared to condoms for example, which have a fraction of a fraction of a chance to break.

acwan93 6y ago

That's my initial thought as well. Abstaining from sex (or contact in the context of the pandemic) is a near impossibility for mental health, societal/economic benefit, and just human nature, so it's better to teach how to do so safely. I fear that there's a large subset of the population who won't follow safe practices unless you scare them with text like "don't visit your friends/family".

dragontamer 6y ago

Condoms are 95% effective. Masks are only 60%. The only methodology that's anywhere close to 95% effective is a vaccine. Furthermore, you can't wear a mask while eating, and its too cold outside now to hold an outdoor dinner. If you have a combination of methodologies that reaches 95% efficacy, feel free to tell the world. But mask-up, social distanced (6-feet apart) and all that is only partially effective at controlling the virus. And such conditions are unlikely to be kept during a Thanksgiving party (especially if alcohol is involved)

Zenst 6y ago
Certainly gives some perspective into peoples ability and limitations of controls/tools available. Best will in the World, stuff is goona happen and STD rates would give an insight. Be interesting in years to come to mine the COVID infection rate data and contrast against STD spread trends and see if any correlation geography. I'm looking at crime rates in area's and infection spreads and whilst nothing hard, it certainly does seem to have some correlation. The more likely an area is to have people prepared to break laws, the more chance people won't respect the laws/rules/advice for spread. So certainly much to be learned, but like driving - you can follow all the rules and drive perfectly, it's always the other person who does not that crashes into you. Just case of managing the flow like a production line and not seeing hospital capacity bottleneck, which seems to be the case in every country in the production line of normal life. So a mass risk increase all in short window of time is one heck of a sudden spike risk that could really jam up and backlog the bottleneck and have a knock-on effect that will not bode well. This all happening in a country with leadership in a bumpy transition phase and potentially a perfect storm. I'd hate to think though that the head of the CDC wasn't prepared to do an outright internal flight travel ban or harder notice statement for fear of upsetting the current president and getting twitter sacked and classed as a communist for not protecting American values. But for me and possibly others - I can see how that may well be plausible, so there is that in the back of my mind, can't deny that thought and do hope I'm wide of the mark even though it is a doubt I can't dismiss. But politics and health are never good bedfellows.
mixmastamyk 6y ago
> too cold outside now to hold an outdoor dinner. If it was good enough for the Peanuts, it's good enough for us with appropriate clothing. :D

munificent 6y ago

Sex is a biological imperative entrenched in our DNA through countless generations of evolutionary selection all the way back to the dawn of sexual reproduction millions of years ago. Thanksgiving is an American secular holiday about eating turkey.

mizzack 6y ago
Family and social relationships are not entrenched in our DNA?
- munificent 6y ago
  Sure, they are. But Thanksgiving is only one minor manifestation of that. Abstinence-only education is likely doomed to failure because you can't expect people to resist all possible sexual urges. But you could reasonably effectively get people to, say, abstain from having sex at Thanksgiving dinner.
quicklyfrozen 6y ago
Being social and connected with our family unit is also deeply embedded in our DNA.