5 ms·

How's the feeling now in the States? Does it mirror the article?

by JimTheMan 6y ago

gedy 6y ago
Not really, people seem about back to normal, but (mostly) with masks.
- karlshea 6y ago
  That’s highly dependent on where you are. In Minneapolis everyone is wearing them, but drive out a little bit and many aren’t. There’s still a huge number of people in complete denial that this is real.
  - sojournerc 6y ago
    One can believe it's real, and also believe scientific evidence that masks don't help much (or at least don't offer the level of protection many believe). Similarly one can know it's real but have a different perception of risk. For instance, a recently published controlled trial doesn't show a statistically significant difference between mask wearers and non. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
    - karlshea 6y ago
      > Limitation: Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others.
    - cr1895 6y ago
      >masks don't help much I don't think you're taking away the complete story of the paper you mention. There are two fundamentally different ways in which masks could help: protecting the wearer from others, or protecting others from the wearer. They state: "These findings do offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect. The findings, however, should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections, because the trial did not test the role of masks in source control of SARS-CoV-2 infection. During the study period, authorities did not recommend face mask use outside hospital settings and mask use was rare in community settings (22). This means that study participants' exposure was overwhelmingly to persons not wearing masks." By suggesting that this paper concludes that masks don't help much, it totally ignores the community benefit of widespread mask-wearing. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/dont-wear-mask-yourself/610336/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/dont-wear...
      - m0zg 6y ago
        The Atlantic article bungles this point, too, as do most people both opposed to and in favor of masks. I think it is harmful to say that masks protect the wearer (unless they are N95 or better). This is a big and easily attacked surface that only serves to obscure and discredit the real point of wearing masks. Instead the messaging should focus solely on the fact that they protect others from the infection carried (likely without knowledge) by the wearer, and that people without symptoms can be contagious. This point needs to be drilled into people's heads until everyone gets it. People also need to be taught to wear masks properly. Wearing one with nose sticking out is darn near useless.
        shadowfox 6y ago
        > Instead the messaging should focus solely on the fact that they protect others from the infection carried (likely without knowledge) by the wearer, and that people without symptoms can be contagious. Given the prevailing attitude towards personal freedom and personal responsibility in the US, I wonder what sort of an effect would such explicit messaging would have on the level of mask wearing.
        m0zg 6y ago
        I'm of the opinion that most people in the US good people who could be convinced not to endanger their neighbor, and wear masks voluntarily, if the messaging is right, and if they aren't forced to do it. If forced, a lot of people won't comply, and rightly so. Governments here have no right to force any such thing.
    - UncleEntity 6y ago
      > For instance, a recently published controlled trial doesn't show a statistically significant difference between mask wearers and non. Umm...doesn't show a statistically significant difference between recommending mask wearing or not. Ironically, when that study was posted here (yesterday?) people were saying in the comments the 'anti-maskers' would jump on it to 'prove' mask wearing wasn't effective.
  - onecommentman 6y ago
    That’s a huge extrapolation from “many people aren’t wearing masks” to “complete denial that this is real”. Beginning of August the deaths per capita in the 7 county Twin Cities area were four times the rate of the rest of the State. It has reduced to only 2.5 times now. Basically for the first seven months, the COVID fatality rate in the rest of the State was comparable to the 17-18 flu season, perhaps a little better. Folks would reasonably ask why worry... Given the Twin Cities have had over twice the COVID fatalities per capita is spite of an arguably superior health care system, the city folks themselves aren’t in much of a position to preach what works...
    - karlshea 6y ago
      "Complete denial that this is real" comes from... literally people denying that it's real, all over the place. You'd have to be under a rock to not have seen this being said. My own father is one of them. As to the rest of your point, yes, in a large urban area the virus will spread faster and sooner than out-state. However, I've been watching the weekly change per-capita per-county map in the Star Tribune and Hennepin county has been lagging everywhere else for quite some time now, so I think we are in fact in a position to preach about what works.
- jgalt212 6y ago
  They just closed down NYC schools again. So would say very not normal in NYC.
ideonexus 6y ago
It depends entirely on who you talk to. Urban America is taking this threat seriously and locking down for the winter while rural America thinks it's a hoax. In Virginia, our cities are keeping the curve flattened, while the virus is surging off the charts in our rural communities. Nothing convinces them. When a loved one dies of asphyxiation, they shrug it off and say that person died of obesity, old age, or a lack of vitamins. We have nurses telling stories of patients struggling to breath, but who still refuse to believe this virus is real and only cease gasping about the "fake news" when they are intubated. Complicating this is our HIPAA regulations. The media can't show you what's happening inside our hospitals right now. They can only show the refrigeration trucks for bodies and roads closed for oxygen trucks outside the hospitals. So the conspiracy theorists claim these are for show and that the hospitals are actually empty. With the complete abdication of leadership at the federal level--where some of our officials are openly urging citizens to fight against policies slowing the spread of the virus, we can do nothing but stay inside and hope to ride this out.
- anon9001 6y ago
  I think that's pretty accurate, but even in Urban America there's a divide between people who aren't taking any chances vs people who are wearing PPE but are living their best life. For me, I'm just not going anywhere or doing anything. It turns out that I can have everything delivered, and my risk is essentially 0. I'm going to wait it out until there's a vaccine. If the numbers dip very low in my area, I might try to squeeze in a doctor and dentist visit. I'm not immunocompromised, but it's not that hard to live as if I was. I'm considering this whole thing a bit of an experiment to see how self-sufficient I can be. Conversely, I have coworkers that are traveling all over the country (wearing masks), and staying at cheap airbnb's. Some are relocating because of the changing housing market. If you don't mind taking on a minimal amount of risk, you can get a lot of good deals on flights/hotels/airbnbs/apartments/etc right now. Personally, even a little risk isn't worth it when I know there's 95% effective vaccine being manufactured. At this point, it's obvious that we'll never get rid of COVID-19 entirely as a disease. Hopefully it'll become a disease only for the people that believe in "fake news" and "anti-vax".
- emboliart 6y ago
onecommentman 6y ago
In general, never count solely on East Coast media to provide an accurate pulse on the entirety of the US. For anything. Europe trips up on this a lot. Especially in the case of COVID, where NY, NJ, MA and CT have per capita death rates two to three times worse than the National average. In early May, over half of all US deaths were in the Boston to DC corridors. The sort of folks who don’t care much about COVID aren’t posting on HN. Typically. So you will get a sampling bias towards the (over?) aware, or those who have an agenda for or against a particular position on COVID response.

How's the feeling now in the States? Does it mirror the article?

gedy 6y ago

Not really, people seem about back to normal, but (mostly) with masks.

karlshea 6y ago
That’s highly dependent on where you are. In Minneapolis everyone is wearing them, but drive out a little bit and many aren’t. There’s still a huge number of people in complete denial that this is real.
- sojournerc 6y ago
  One can believe it's real, and also believe scientific evidence that masks don't help much (or at least don't offer the level of protection many believe). Similarly one can know it's real but have a different perception of risk. For instance, a recently published controlled trial doesn't show a statistically significant difference between mask wearers and non. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
  - karlshea 6y ago
    > Limitation: Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others.
  - cr1895 6y ago
    >masks don't help much I don't think you're taking away the complete story of the paper you mention. There are two fundamentally different ways in which masks could help: protecting the wearer from others, or protecting others from the wearer. They state: "These findings do offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect. The findings, however, should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections, because the trial did not test the role of masks in source control of SARS-CoV-2 infection. During the study period, authorities did not recommend face mask use outside hospital settings and mask use was rare in community settings (22). This means that study participants' exposure was overwhelmingly to persons not wearing masks." By suggesting that this paper concludes that masks don't help much, it totally ignores the community benefit of widespread mask-wearing. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/dont-wear-mask-yourself/610336/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/dont-wear...
    - m0zg 6y ago
      The Atlantic article bungles this point, too, as do most people both opposed to and in favor of masks. I think it is harmful to say that masks protect the wearer (unless they are N95 or better). This is a big and easily attacked surface that only serves to obscure and discredit the real point of wearing masks. Instead the messaging should focus solely on the fact that they protect others from the infection carried (likely without knowledge) by the wearer, and that people without symptoms can be contagious. This point needs to be drilled into people's heads until everyone gets it. People also need to be taught to wear masks properly. Wearing one with nose sticking out is darn near useless.
      - shadowfox 6y ago
        > Instead the messaging should focus solely on the fact that they protect others from the infection carried (likely without knowledge) by the wearer, and that people without symptoms can be contagious. Given the prevailing attitude towards personal freedom and personal responsibility in the US, I wonder what sort of an effect would such explicit messaging would have on the level of mask wearing.
        m0zg 6y ago
        I'm of the opinion that most people in the US good people who could be convinced not to endanger their neighbor, and wear masks voluntarily, if the messaging is right, and if they aren't forced to do it. If forced, a lot of people won't comply, and rightly so. Governments here have no right to force any such thing.
  - UncleEntity 6y ago
    > For instance, a recently published controlled trial doesn't show a statistically significant difference between mask wearers and non. Umm...doesn't show a statistically significant difference between recommending mask wearing or not. Ironically, when that study was posted here (yesterday?) people were saying in the comments the 'anti-maskers' would jump on it to 'prove' mask wearing wasn't effective.
- onecommentman 6y ago
  That’s a huge extrapolation from “many people aren’t wearing masks” to “complete denial that this is real”. Beginning of August the deaths per capita in the 7 county Twin Cities area were four times the rate of the rest of the State. It has reduced to only 2.5 times now. Basically for the first seven months, the COVID fatality rate in the rest of the State was comparable to the 17-18 flu season, perhaps a little better. Folks would reasonably ask why worry... Given the Twin Cities have had over twice the COVID fatalities per capita is spite of an arguably superior health care system, the city folks themselves aren’t in much of a position to preach what works...
  - karlshea 6y ago
    "Complete denial that this is real" comes from... literally people denying that it's real, all over the place. You'd have to be under a rock to not have seen this being said. My own father is one of them. As to the rest of your point, yes, in a large urban area the virus will spread faster and sooner than out-state. However, I've been watching the weekly change per-capita per-county map in the Star Tribune and Hennepin county has been lagging everywhere else for quite some time now, so I think we are in fact in a position to preach about what works.
jgalt212 6y ago
They just closed down NYC schools again. So would say very not normal in NYC.

ideonexus 6y ago

It depends entirely on who you talk to. Urban America is taking this threat seriously and locking down for the winter while rural America thinks it's a hoax. In Virginia, our cities are keeping the curve flattened, while the virus is surging off the charts in our rural communities. Nothing convinces them. When a loved one dies of asphyxiation, they shrug it off and say that person died of obesity, old age, or a lack of vitamins. We have nurses telling stories of patients struggling to breath, but who still refuse to believe this virus is real and only cease gasping about the "fake news" when they are intubated. Complicating this is our HIPAA regulations. The media can't show you what's happening inside our hospitals right now. They can only show the refrigeration trucks for bodies and roads closed for oxygen trucks outside the hospitals. So the conspiracy theorists claim these are for show and that the hospitals are actually empty. With the complete abdication of leadership at the federal level--where some of our officials are openly urging citizens to fight against policies slowing the spread of the virus, we can do nothing but stay inside and hope to ride this out.

anon9001 6y ago
I think that's pretty accurate, but even in Urban America there's a divide between people who aren't taking any chances vs people who are wearing PPE but are living their best life. For me, I'm just not going anywhere or doing anything. It turns out that I can have everything delivered, and my risk is essentially 0. I'm going to wait it out until there's a vaccine. If the numbers dip very low in my area, I might try to squeeze in a doctor and dentist visit. I'm not immunocompromised, but it's not that hard to live as if I was. I'm considering this whole thing a bit of an experiment to see how self-sufficient I can be. Conversely, I have coworkers that are traveling all over the country (wearing masks), and staying at cheap airbnb's. Some are relocating because of the changing housing market. If you don't mind taking on a minimal amount of risk, you can get a lot of good deals on flights/hotels/airbnbs/apartments/etc right now. Personally, even a little risk isn't worth it when I know there's 95% effective vaccine being manufactured. At this point, it's obvious that we'll never get rid of COVID-19 entirely as a disease. Hopefully it'll become a disease only for the people that believe in "fake news" and "anti-vax".
emboliart 6y ago

onecommentman 6y ago

In general, never count solely on East Coast media to provide an accurate pulse on the entirety of the US. For anything. Europe trips up on this a lot. Especially in the case of COVID, where NY, NJ, MA and CT have per capita death rates two to three times worse than the National average. In early May, over half of all US deaths were in the Boston to DC corridors. The sort of folks who don’t care much about COVID aren’t posting on HN. Typically. So you will get a sampling bias towards the (over?) aware, or those who have an agenda for or against a particular position on COVID response.