6 ms·

I feel like this may the first time that Macbooks might actually be worth their premium from a purely hardware perspective. Before people jump on this, I mean

I feel like this may the first time that Macbooks might actually be worth their premium from a purely hardware perspective. Before people jump on this, I mean that for example the previous Intel MB Pro with i5 would cost like $1,500, which is far more than almost any windows laptop running the same specs.

seqastian 6y ago
People on the car forum comparing bmw with the same horse power as a fiat will agree with you.
- gnarbarian 6y ago
  Is the Mac comparable to the bmw because both are nearly impossible to work on and fix when they break?
- niea_11 6y ago
  I think it's more fair to say comparing a bmw 3 series and a toyota supra. Both are good cars but one is known for its premium finish and quality, and the other for the customization possibilities you can have. :)
  - QuotedForTruth 6y ago
    This is a funny comparison since BMW actually builds the Supra. Its basically a rebranded Z4. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a31004604/2020-bmw-z4-m40i-vs-2020-toyota-gr-supra/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a310046...
    - niea_11 6y ago
      thanks for the link I didn't know that :D. I'm not a car enthusiast, but the supra is the first car that came to my mind when I read the parent comment because I saw a lot of youtube videos with supras from the 90s (modified and) producing a lot of power. Like this one [1], I think the car in the video is a 1999 model and stock it produces at most 325hp (info from wikipedia). 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvh2HYIyBAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvh2HYIyBAs
      - QuotedForTruth 6y ago
        If you meant the older supra then that makes more sense. The Supra wasn't produced for many years and was recently re-released with this BMW partnership. Many old school Supra fans feel its strayed pretty far from its past and don't regard it well. The car industry is full of comparisons like this. Luxury is a different scale than performance. You can have either or both. Macs exist higher on the luxury scale than most windows laptops and they offer models across the performance scale. Quite like BMW.
jstummbillig 6y ago
What you are looking at, tho, is not the pure hardware perspective, but the pure hardware numbers perspective, which excludes ergonomics, design, build quality and hardware/software integration as well as stuff like speakers and screens which might not be comparable because no other vendor does them exactly alike. I always found this strange, when looking at personal computers – or, in fact, most anything in life. As if what can not be checked or compared on a feature list has no meaning. Do people really feel this way about the world or is it just a way to deal with insecurity about what is important? The most confusing thing about this is, that, to me, the human experience is pretty much the opposite: The soft parts beat the feature list every time. The better design wins.
- Droobfest 6y ago
  If we’re talking about hardware ergonomics the lack of a del key and placement of the fn key alone make me never buy a macbook again. I also hate the difference in cmd, alt and ctrl keys from other keyboards.
  - jstummbillig 6y ago
    To be clear, my comment did not relate to either Apple or MacBooks in particular. Also, the value of each soft factor will differ from person to person. Good design highly relates to personal needs.
    - Droobfest 6y ago
      Yes I understand that and I guess I’m a bit salty. But part of my point is that you can make really great hardware and software of great quality, but one or two unfortunate choices can soil the whole thing for someone. And Apple especially can sometimes be too stubborn to acknowledge people’s personal differences or an established industry standard.
      - keyb0ardninja 6y ago
        Sometimes? Don't you mean always?
tpush 6y ago
Any Windows laptop with comparable display quality, SSD speeds, battery life etc. cost similar or more. And they still have trackpads that suck.
- ActorNightly 6y ago
  Now this is the case. Before, Dell XPSs were VERY good laptops with same performance for a cheaper price. And thats not including thermal throttling, the bullshit Apple pulls with background OS stuff like checking executable hashes online, being restricted to what software you can run, and so on.
  - Lio 6y ago
    Are you sure? A Dell XPS13 with 8Gb RAM 512GB SSD is $1,349[1]. An Apple MacBook Air with 8Gb RAM 512GB SSD is $1,249[2]. The XPS13 is great, I have one myself with Linux on. They're definitely in the same price range as the Apple laptops though. I think the other points you've raised have been addressed else where. There's no restriction on what software you run. You can even replace the OS with Linux if you like by configuring the security. The hash key transmission seems to be used for malware detection, is optional and Apple have committed to not keeping logs of it when people do use it. 1. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-13-touch-laptop/spd/xps-13-9310-laptop/xn9310cto230h https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-13-touc... 2. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air
    - ActorNightly 6y ago
      I dunno if you are serious or not, but the XPS is a big step above the Air in performance. Even with current M1 Macs, outside of the battery life, you have sub 2k laptops that blow the M1 out of the water https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/15333968 https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/15333968
      - Lio 6y ago
        Not sure I’d call that “blowing out of the water”. I think, for a light weight laptop I’d rather take the single core bump of the air over the marginal gain for multicore of the Asus. That’s just me though. Geekbench 5: Asus: 1218 sc, 8031 mc [1] MacBook Air: 1726 sc, 7417 mc [2] 1. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4854331 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4854331 2. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4856634 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4856634
ActorNightly 6y ago
Has there been any sort of long term load tests? I feel like the chassis limitations are going to result in thermal throttling compared to similar performance laptops with actual cooling design. Even if it doesn't thermal throttle, one of my main complaints with Macbooks is that you can't actually use them in your lap cause they get uncomfortably hot. As for being worth it, wait till the next gen mobile chips in 2021. I feel like we will see similar performance fairly soon in cheaper laptops without being locked into the Apple ecosystem.
- Joeri 6y ago
  The m1 macbook air reviews all say they don’t get hot, no matter what you throw at them, and they at most throttle down 15%. The macbook pro and mini stay cool and quiet and do not throttle, regardless of the workload. Any performance expectations you have from macs before the transition you should set aside, these are entirely new and come with very different characteristics.
- alwillis 6y ago
  I feel like we will see similar performance fairly soon in cheaper laptops without being locked into the Apple ecosystem. That's probably not going to happen any time soon. If the $999 M1-based MacBook Air is already outperforming almost every Intel laptop that's been shipping (including Apple's), there's little chance Intel or AMD are going to surpass that. Even if they get close to performance, they're not going to have the same battery life. From Matthew Panzarino's review on Techcrunch on the M1 MacBook Pro [1]: "In fullscreen 4k/60 video playback, the M1 fares even better, clocking an easy 20 hours with fixed 50% brightness. On an earlier test, I left the auto-adjust on and it crossed the 24 hour mark easily. Yeah, a full day. That’s an iOS-like milestone." It's important to remember: this is Apple's low-end chip for entry-level/consumer level hardware, yet it's more than competitive with a $5000 iMac Pro. [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/17/yeah-apples-m1-macbook-pro-is-powerful-but-its-the-battery-life-that-will-blow-you-away/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/17/yeah-apples-m1-macbook-pro...

seqastian 6y ago

People on the car forum comparing bmw with the same horse power as a fiat will agree with you.

gnarbarian 6y ago
Is the Mac comparable to the bmw because both are nearly impossible to work on and fix when they break?
niea_11 6y ago
I think it's more fair to say comparing a bmw 3 series and a toyota supra. Both are good cars but one is known for its premium finish and quality, and the other for the customization possibilities you can have. :)
- QuotedForTruth 6y ago
  This is a funny comparison since BMW actually builds the Supra. Its basically a rebranded Z4. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a31004604/2020-bmw-z4-m40i-vs-2020-toyota-gr-supra/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a310046...
  - niea_11 6y ago
    thanks for the link I didn't know that :D. I'm not a car enthusiast, but the supra is the first car that came to my mind when I read the parent comment because I saw a lot of youtube videos with supras from the 90s (modified and) producing a lot of power. Like this one [1], I think the car in the video is a 1999 model and stock it produces at most 325hp (info from wikipedia). 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvh2HYIyBAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvh2HYIyBAs
    - QuotedForTruth 6y ago
      If you meant the older supra then that makes more sense. The Supra wasn't produced for many years and was recently re-released with this BMW partnership. Many old school Supra fans feel its strayed pretty far from its past and don't regard it well. The car industry is full of comparisons like this. Luxury is a different scale than performance. You can have either or both. Macs exist higher on the luxury scale than most windows laptops and they offer models across the performance scale. Quite like BMW.

jstummbillig 6y ago

What you are looking at, tho, is not the pure hardware perspective, but the pure hardware numbers perspective, which excludes ergonomics, design, build quality and hardware/software integration as well as stuff like speakers and screens which might not be comparable because no other vendor does them exactly alike. I always found this strange, when looking at personal computers – or, in fact, most anything in life. As if what can not be checked or compared on a feature list has no meaning. Do people really feel this way about the world or is it just a way to deal with insecurity about what is important? The most confusing thing about this is, that, to me, the human experience is pretty much the opposite: The soft parts beat the feature list every time. The better design wins.

Droobfest 6y ago
If we’re talking about hardware ergonomics the lack of a del key and placement of the fn key alone make me never buy a macbook again. I also hate the difference in cmd, alt and ctrl keys from other keyboards.
- jstummbillig 6y ago
  To be clear, my comment did not relate to either Apple or MacBooks in particular. Also, the value of each soft factor will differ from person to person. Good design highly relates to personal needs.
  - Droobfest 6y ago
    Yes I understand that and I guess I’m a bit salty. But part of my point is that you can make really great hardware and software of great quality, but one or two unfortunate choices can soil the whole thing for someone. And Apple especially can sometimes be too stubborn to acknowledge people’s personal differences or an established industry standard.
    - keyb0ardninja 6y ago
      Sometimes? Don't you mean always?

tpush 6y ago

Any Windows laptop with comparable display quality, SSD speeds, battery life etc. cost similar or more. And they still have trackpads that suck.

ActorNightly 6y ago
Now this is the case. Before, Dell XPSs were VERY good laptops with same performance for a cheaper price. And thats not including thermal throttling, the bullshit Apple pulls with background OS stuff like checking executable hashes online, being restricted to what software you can run, and so on.
- Lio 6y ago
  Are you sure? A Dell XPS13 with 8Gb RAM 512GB SSD is $1,349[1]. An Apple MacBook Air with 8Gb RAM 512GB SSD is $1,249[2]. The XPS13 is great, I have one myself with Linux on. They're definitely in the same price range as the Apple laptops though. I think the other points you've raised have been addressed else where. There's no restriction on what software you run. You can even replace the OS with Linux if you like by configuring the security. The hash key transmission seems to be used for malware detection, is optional and Apple have committed to not keeping logs of it when people do use it. 1. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-13-touch-laptop/spd/xps-13-9310-laptop/xn9310cto230h https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/new-xps-13-touc... 2. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air
  - ActorNightly 6y ago
    I dunno if you are serious or not, but the XPS is a big step above the Air in performance. Even with current M1 Macs, outside of the battery life, you have sub 2k laptops that blow the M1 out of the water https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/15333968 https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/15333968
    - Lio 6y ago
      Not sure I’d call that “blowing out of the water”. I think, for a light weight laptop I’d rather take the single core bump of the air over the marginal gain for multicore of the Asus. That’s just me though. Geekbench 5: Asus: 1218 sc, 8031 mc [1] MacBook Air: 1726 sc, 7417 mc [2] 1. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4854331 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4854331 2. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4856634 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4856634

ActorNightly 6y ago

Has there been any sort of long term load tests? I feel like the chassis limitations are going to result in thermal throttling compared to similar performance laptops with actual cooling design. Even if it doesn't thermal throttle, one of my main complaints with Macbooks is that you can't actually use them in your lap cause they get uncomfortably hot. As for being worth it, wait till the next gen mobile chips in 2021. I feel like we will see similar performance fairly soon in cheaper laptops without being locked into the Apple ecosystem.

Joeri 6y ago
The m1 macbook air reviews all say they don’t get hot, no matter what you throw at them, and they at most throttle down 15%. The macbook pro and mini stay cool and quiet and do not throttle, regardless of the workload. Any performance expectations you have from macs before the transition you should set aside, these are entirely new and come with very different characteristics.
alwillis 6y ago
I feel like we will see similar performance fairly soon in cheaper laptops without being locked into the Apple ecosystem. That's probably not going to happen any time soon. If the $999 M1-based MacBook Air is already outperforming almost every Intel laptop that's been shipping (including Apple's), there's little chance Intel or AMD are going to surpass that. Even if they get close to performance, they're not going to have the same battery life. From Matthew Panzarino's review on Techcrunch on the M1 MacBook Pro [1]: "In fullscreen 4k/60 video playback, the M1 fares even better, clocking an easy 20 hours with fixed 50% brightness. On an earlier test, I left the auto-adjust on and it crossed the 24 hour mark easily. Yeah, a full day. That’s an iOS-like milestone." It's important to remember: this is Apple's low-end chip for entry-level/consumer level hardware, yet it's more than competitive with a $5000 iMac Pro. [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/17/yeah-apples-m1-macbook-pro-is-powerful-but-its-the-battery-life-that-will-blow-you-away/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/17/yeah-apples-m1-macbook-pro...