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Please let the EU develop its own standing military force independent of NATO and US. It's truly about time this happened. We need a third counterpart to China

Please let the EU develop its own standing military force independent of NATO and US. It's truly about time this happened. We need a third counterpart to China and the USA.

nix23 6y ago
No please, i don't want a big German directed army again. But something like NATO but just for Europa..that would be a good idea.
- oblio 6y ago
  Times have changed. A big German army isn't the thing anyone in 2020 worries anymore. The last times they worried, Germany was 10% of the world economy and growing fast and Europe itself was probably 50% of the world economy (probably more considering all the territories). Now Germany is something like 3% and Europe is at 20% and going down.
  - nix23 6y ago
    >A big German army isn't the thing anyone in 2020 worries anymore. A really? https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article210474071/Waffen-Sprengstoff-und-Nazi-Literatur-bei-KSK-Soldat-in-Sachsen-gefunden.html https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article210474071/Waf... Would you be happy if DEVGRU/Sealteam6..whatever they call them now, consist of KKK Members? >Germany is something like 3% and Europe is at 20% and going down. That 3% cannot be true, Germany is at least 1/3 the European economy, and you know since i live in Europe...i worry about Germany.
    - disgu 6y ago
      So which country would you want to take the lead. Or phrased differently: Which country's army do you think doesn't have far right people in it?
      - nix23 6y ago
        >Which country's army do you think doesn't have far right people in it? True but Germany is really famous for it, and it looks like they just don't get it under control, example? The most elite Fighting-force (KSK) has a big Nazi Problem...for years now. >So which country would you want to take the lead. Non of them, hence my idea to make a pact like Nato and not a European Army.
    - oblio 6y ago
      > That 3% cannot be true, Germany is at least 1/3 the European economy, and you know since i live in Europe...i worry about Germany. Your info is out of date by a decade or more, I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_world_product https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_world_product > In 2017, according to the CIA's World Factbook, the GWP was around US $80.27 trillion in nominal terms and totaled approximately 127.8 trillion international dollars in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany > German GDP: $3,780 trillion, $4.454 trillion PPP. So, Germany is 4% of the world GDP in nominal terms and 3.4% in PPP terms. And that was back in 2017, developing countries are growing faster, so Germany's share probably went down. Regarding Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union > EU GDP: $18.292 trillion, $18.377 trillion GDP. So Europe is 22% of the world GDP in nominal terms and 14% in PPP terms. And it's definitely going down as a share of the world economy. Germany also is only only about 20% of EU GDP in nominal terms and 24% in PPP terms. This part is also going down. You're conflating the EU with Europe. Europe has quite a few economies outside the EU: UK, Russia, Switzerland, Norway, etc. Germany is probably 12-15% of the European economy, or maybe less.
      - nix23 6y ago
        >Your info is out of date by a decade or more, I think. The German economy is the fourth-largest in the world and accounted for one quarter (24.7%) of the European Union’s GDP in 2019. The second biggest in the EU (now France) is one third smaller. 3,449.050 (Germany) 2,425.708 (France) https://www.trade.gov/knowledge-product/germany-market-overview https://www.trade.gov/knowledge-product/germany-market-overv... >So, Germany is 4% of the world GDP in nominal terms and 3.4% in PPP terms. That's not important in terms of the EU >You're conflating the EU with Europe. Europe has quite a few economies outside the EU: UK, Russia, Switzerland, Norway, etc. Germany is probably 12-15% of the European economy, or maybe less. No i don't because i live in one of that Non EU but European/Schengen country's..again nothing todo with a EU-Army >And it's definitely going down as a share of the world economy. Again it's not about the World but the EU and the Schengen-Space
        6y ago
- Bayart 6y ago
  Why would a European army be directed by Germans ? They're notoriously incompetent in military affairs. They don't have the personnel nor the expertise required to take control of the army to begin with.
  - nix23 6y ago
    >They're notoriously incompetent in military affairs True, but the biggest payer has the biggest voice. https://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-fakten/europa/70580/nettozahler-und-nettoempfaenger https://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-fakten/europa/705... Germany pays more then double as much then France.
jopsen 6y ago
As much as Trump makes me want that... We just don't have public figures in the EU who can do what an American president can do. Trump might not be able to command the loyalty of NATO if it came down to it. But we would listen to Bush, Clinton or Obama, I don't see a figure in the EU who can address the world in this way. When Bush said we were going into Afghanistan (right or wrong) we did it. Who in the EU can speak on behalf of the free world? I'm european, and I've heard we have an EU president -- but I have no clue who that is, or what it means.

Please let the EU develop its own standing military force independent of NATO and US. It's truly about time this happened. We need a third counterpart to China and the USA.

nix23 6y ago

No please, i don't want a big German directed army again. But something like NATO but just for Europa..that would be a good idea.

oblio 6y ago
Times have changed. A big German army isn't the thing anyone in 2020 worries anymore. The last times they worried, Germany was 10% of the world economy and growing fast and Europe itself was probably 50% of the world economy (probably more considering all the territories). Now Germany is something like 3% and Europe is at 20% and going down.
- nix23 6y ago
  >A big German army isn't the thing anyone in 2020 worries anymore. A really? https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article210474071/Waffen-Sprengstoff-und-Nazi-Literatur-bei-KSK-Soldat-in-Sachsen-gefunden.html https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article210474071/Waf... Would you be happy if DEVGRU/Sealteam6..whatever they call them now, consist of KKK Members? >Germany is something like 3% and Europe is at 20% and going down. That 3% cannot be true, Germany is at least 1/3 the European economy, and you know since i live in Europe...i worry about Germany.
  - disgu 6y ago
    So which country would you want to take the lead. Or phrased differently: Which country's army do you think doesn't have far right people in it?
    - nix23 6y ago
      >Which country's army do you think doesn't have far right people in it? True but Germany is really famous for it, and it looks like they just don't get it under control, example? The most elite Fighting-force (KSK) has a big Nazi Problem...for years now. >So which country would you want to take the lead. Non of them, hence my idea to make a pact like Nato and not a European Army.
  - oblio 6y ago
    > That 3% cannot be true, Germany is at least 1/3 the European economy, and you know since i live in Europe...i worry about Germany. Your info is out of date by a decade or more, I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_world_product https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_world_product > In 2017, according to the CIA's World Factbook, the GWP was around US $80.27 trillion in nominal terms and totaled approximately 127.8 trillion international dollars in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany > German GDP: $3,780 trillion, $4.454 trillion PPP. So, Germany is 4% of the world GDP in nominal terms and 3.4% in PPP terms. And that was back in 2017, developing countries are growing faster, so Germany's share probably went down. Regarding Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union > EU GDP: $18.292 trillion, $18.377 trillion GDP. So Europe is 22% of the world GDP in nominal terms and 14% in PPP terms. And it's definitely going down as a share of the world economy. Germany also is only only about 20% of EU GDP in nominal terms and 24% in PPP terms. This part is also going down. You're conflating the EU with Europe. Europe has quite a few economies outside the EU: UK, Russia, Switzerland, Norway, etc. Germany is probably 12-15% of the European economy, or maybe less.
    - nix23 6y ago
      >Your info is out of date by a decade or more, I think. The German economy is the fourth-largest in the world and accounted for one quarter (24.7%) of the European Union’s GDP in 2019. The second biggest in the EU (now France) is one third smaller. 3,449.050 (Germany) 2,425.708 (France) https://www.trade.gov/knowledge-product/germany-market-overview https://www.trade.gov/knowledge-product/germany-market-overv... >So, Germany is 4% of the world GDP in nominal terms and 3.4% in PPP terms. That's not important in terms of the EU >You're conflating the EU with Europe. Europe has quite a few economies outside the EU: UK, Russia, Switzerland, Norway, etc. Germany is probably 12-15% of the European economy, or maybe less. No i don't because i live in one of that Non EU but European/Schengen country's..again nothing todo with a EU-Army >And it's definitely going down as a share of the world economy. Again it's not about the World but the EU and the Schengen-Space
      - 6y ago
Bayart 6y ago
Why would a European army be directed by Germans ? They're notoriously incompetent in military affairs. They don't have the personnel nor the expertise required to take control of the army to begin with.
- nix23 6y ago
  >They're notoriously incompetent in military affairs True, but the biggest payer has the biggest voice. https://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-fakten/europa/70580/nettozahler-und-nettoempfaenger https://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-fakten/europa/705... Germany pays more then double as much then France.

jopsen 6y ago

As much as Trump makes me want that... We just don't have public figures in the EU who can do what an American president can do. Trump might not be able to command the loyalty of NATO if it came down to it. But we would listen to Bush, Clinton or Obama, I don't see a figure in the EU who can address the world in this way. When Bush said we were going into Afghanistan (right or wrong) we did it. Who in the EU can speak on behalf of the free world? I'm european, and I've heard we have an EU president -- but I have no clue who that is, or what it means.